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[Quietust]

They've got a high frequency, but only appear in wet, good, non-freezing biomes.  That means the biome will need to be wetlands... but not too wet or other plants will take up it's slots.

A bit of a late reply, but that's not actually how biomes work - [BIOME:NOT_FREEZING] is nothing more than an alias for every "non-freezing" land biome (i.e. everything but MOUNTAIN, GLACIER, TUNDRA, OCEAN_*, POOL_*, LAKE_*, RIVER_*, and SUBTERRANEAN_*), which includes everything from swamps to deserts. The only thing that [WET] does is allow the plant to grow within 2 tiles of a murky pool/brook/river (like Willow trees do); [DRY] is what permits plants to grow anywhere else.

[Kaos]

by the way, what about trees/shrubs and soil beneath them?


I read (don't remember if in the wiki or around here) that for trees to grow they need the tile in the z-level below them to be non-dug soil, like if they need the soil to lay roots or something, I think it applied to shrubs too, is this true at all??

[Quietust]

It was definitely true in 0.31.18 and earlier, both for surface plants and subterranean plants, though it was seemingly relaxed in 0.31.19+ for subterranean plants - I haven't yet tested how surface plants currently behave.

[Kaos]

how is (was) it supposed to work anyway? the wall tile in the z-level directly below the floor tile where the shrub/tree would be has (had) to be non-dug?? do (did) constructed walls work?

[Bognor]

for trees to grow they need the tile in the z-level below them to be non-dug soil

I hope that's not exactly true, or else my trust in the wiki has totally messed up the tree farm I've just established:

Above-ground trees will only grow in areas where there is sufficient soil 1 Z-level beneath them (currently observed to be at least 1 unmined tile within a 2-tile radius...

My nascent above-ground tree farm sits immediately above a soil layer in which I've left every fifth tile in every fifth row unmined, so that every tile is within a 2-tile radius of unmined soil.  Is my tree farm doomed? 

[Quietust]

There had to be an unmined soil wall within a 2-tile radius underneath the tile in question. That is, in the following diagram, at least one of the "?"s must be a natural soil wall:

Code: [Select]

Z=0
.....
.....
..X..
.....
.....

Z-1
?????
?????
?????
?????
?????
Bognor: that information on the wiki is what I added back in pre-0.31.19, and as I've already stated, I haven't actually tested that in the latest version.

[Kaos]

the wiki

Above-ground trees will only grow in areas where there is sufficient soil 1 Z-level beneath them (currently observed to be at least 1 unmined tile within a 2-tile radius...

This, this was what I read, it was the wiki then.... I was wondering if this was true at all since the wiki has proven to be wrong at times...


And if shrubs follow the same rule?
and if constructed walls count?

[Bognor]

Quietust: Gotcha, thanks.  Well if my current fort survives long enough for me to know whether my farm has worked, I'll update the wiki accordingly.

Kaos: The same fort will find out whether it's true for shrubs as well, and just to test constructions, I'll mine out a couple of the wall tiles and replace them with constructed walls.

Currently my z-1 level looks like this, with X representing unmined tiles:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................
.........................
.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................
.........................
.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................
.........................
.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................
.........................
.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................
.........................
.........................
..X....X....X....X....X..
.........................
.........................


This design is intended to maximise usable space on z-1 while permitting maximum tree growth on z=0.

[Kaos]

great some !!Science!! 


Also try smooting/engraving some of the columns (if they are rock)
You also need a patch without columns to see if nothing grows there....


Maybe a similar experiment underground? for underground trees/shrubs? in this case a smooth natural column, an engraved natural column and a constructed column both rough and using blocks patch apply...

[Quietust]

Maybe a similar experiment underground? for underground trees/shrubs? in this case a smooth natural column, an engraved natural column and a constructed column both rough and using blocks patch apply...

Underground trees/shrubs have already been verified to not follow this rule anymore - all they need is the floor to either be made of soil or be covered in mud, and mined space underneath no longer makes any difference at all.

[wp]

Is there any work arounds I can do to get sun berries? I was really looking forward to having some sunshine. 

[Kaos]

I remember reading something about biomes only being able to "display" a few species of all the possible species candidates that biome is able to produce, for example if a particular biome can produce 6 species of trees it will only display a few of them and not all, this is supposed to be random, so if you had various biomes of the same type (F1 - temperate shrubland, F2 - temperate shrubland, F3 - temperate shrubland) you'll get more chances of getting all the biodiversity for that biome....


Again don't quote me on this, is something I read around here, and I haven't verified, not even know if it's true to start with....


So MAYBE having an embark with several Good (or Evil) biomes will allow to find the elusive sunberries/feather trees (or sliver dye shrub/evil tree <--forgot the names  )

[stabbymcstabstab]

NOT THE GNOMES!
you need to be on a good mountian for them to appear and bring you gifts!

[INSANEcyborg]

Is there any work arounds I can do to get sun berries? I was really looking forward to having some sunshine.

Either make a custom reaction that makes them, or edit out the [GOOD] tag.   Personally, I replaced the [GOOD] token with [DESERT_SAND] and left in [WET].  Now they only appear in desserts next to streams or brooks. 

[Makigall]

In my current set of raws I've removed the good and evil tags from my plants.  So feather trees and glumprongs show up now, as do sliver bulbs and sunberries.  But if the plants are anything like the trees then they aren't guaranteed to be on every embark, but they're usually pretty easy to trade for.  The trees grow in any combination, I've seen glumprongs side by side with feather trees, one or the other, or neither on any given embark.

But I can confirm that removing the good and evil tags makes them start appearing.