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[Tarran]

Am I saying that I'm simulating real life? Uh, no. Stop using that point.

Plus, really deadly latrines don't sound that bad.

[Draignean]

Am I saying that I'm simulating real life? Uh, no. Stop using that point.

You're trying, even if that's not what you're attempting to do. Being nobody special is realistic, and thus -if making the player the equal of the NPCs is what you're attempting to do-  you are making the game more realistic.

[Tarran]

More realistic =/= Real life. Just like more hot =/= on fire.

[Draignean]

More realistic =/= Real life. Just like more hot =/= on fire.

True, but you have not stated where you are going to break the lines.  You have stated that you want to increase the realism of multiple variables,  what is to prevent any person from reaching the conclusion (and evidently several have) that you intend to increase realism across the board?  We question you, Tarran, not because your ideas are bad, but because you have given us a nebulous idea of what you want to do and we wish to find  its  limits.

On another note, Grimdark, which you have said you favor for  the Sci-Fi 'verse, is one that is better suited to the eternal war type of campaign. I may retract my in, however, if the game does turn out to be one in which there is no possible long term progression of the plot. Just not my style.

[Tarran]

True, but you have not stated where you are going to break the lines.  You have stated that you want to increase the realism of multiple variables,  what is to prevent any person from reaching the conclusion (and evidently several have) that you intend to increase realism across the board?  We question you, Tarran, not because your ideas are bad, but because you have given us a nebulous idea of what you want to do and we wish to find  its  limits.

If you wish to find limits, it's better to ask rather than assume.

Limits: Your RTD, but slightly less realistic and slightly more realistic in places.

On another note, Grimdark, which you have said you favor for  the Sci-Fi 'verse, is one that is better suited to the eternal war type of campaign. I may retract my in, however, if the game does turn out to be one in which there is no possible long term progression of the plot. Just not my style.

You'll need to define 'progression'. It's a vague term.

[Aninimouse]

So, would anyone be interested in this (Mess of seemingly random thoughts )?

 An RTD that takes place in a world with automobiles, trains, firearms, semi-modern cities, airships, etc...
But also Gods, Magic, Dwarves, Elves, the Undead, Dragons and the like? I've been working on the setting for a while now, for a Freeroam forum RPG, but I'm considering doing a simpler, possibly cooperative adventure in RtD form as well.

 I find it kind of hard to explain the setting, especially as it's still a WIP, and there's just so much to it, but basically it's 'What if you took Medieval Fantasy, and then went forward in time until things were about WWII Era in terms of technology, with Magic and Mythical creatures still playing a large role.' that takes place in a world of small continents and islands spread amongst an infinite expanse of sea.

The current "Known" world is a little smaller than Europe, ignoring large bodies of water. And that world is filled with human towns and cities, (That happen to be a little on the generic side for the most part, but they're Humans, what do you expect? )

Expansive, industrial, Dwarvern cities within mountains, filled with networks of subway systems and factories.

The Elven cities, built within the trees of ancient forests. Although most Elves look down upon all the industrialism that the other races have turned to, and spend most of their time holed up in their forests. There are still an abundance of Elves that are a bit more lenient when it comes to that, and have integrated themselves into the societies of other races.

Then there are the 'Thelenawen' Elves, whom split up with the other Elves long ago, in favour of a more industrial, and warlike lifestyle themselves. However, they were driven away into a tiny corner of the known world by the Orcs during the 'Territory Wars'. (Which were basically battles over the continents and islands there were being newly discovered right after the invention of the Airship.)

Giant, Orcish Fortress-Cities, filled with Soldiers-in-training and factories pumping out weapons. Although they do sound like they'd be evil, they aren't really. Holding honor and such in high regards,
they just really love battle.

Goblin cities built into the cliffs and mountains of the dangerous, arid regions of the Northwest, using makeshift airships to travel from settlement to settlement to avoid the dangers that lie in the deserts below.

Ancient ruins of civilizations long forgotten, filled with undead and other dangers of course.

Magic, as I said, is still a common occurrence. Around 30% of the Human and Dwarvern Races are capable of using at least the simplest forms of magic. It's a bit more uncommon in Orcs and Goblins, but it's extremely common in Elven and Gnomish societies.

Gods are still worshiped, and from time to time choose to walk amongst the mortals.

Somewhat Castle in the Sky inspired, as far as airships go.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Firearms, for the most part, are somewhere around WWI-II level for the Humans, the Dwarves are a bit more advanced, and the Orcs make a lot of big, bulky weapons that can't really be described in our history's terms. The Elves still use Swords, Bows, and Magic, (While the Thelenawen use a combination of Melee Weapons, Magic, and Firearms), and the Goblins can use whatever they can. (Mostly small firearms, rifles, spears, and crossbows.)

I have enough to make a thousand RtDs in this setting, anything from soldiers, to adventurers, to criminals, to the crew of an airship, to explorers, to evil necromancers, to members of a rebel/freedom fighting group, to police officers...
 
But I'll only bother figuring out what the players will be doing, if they're actually interested in the first place.

[Draignean]

True, but you have not stated where you are going to break the lines.  You have stated that you want to increase the realism of multiple variables,  what is to prevent any person from reaching the conclusion (and evidently several have) that you intend to increase realism across the board?  We question you, Tarran, not because your ideas are bad, but because you have given us a nebulous idea of what you want to do and we wish to find  its  limits.

If you wish to find limits, it's better to ask rather than assume.

And yet we have all together embarked on a merry and tangential adventure in which we have discovered far more than we could have thought to simply ask.  A question creates an answer, nothing more. A good assumption can provide a thousand questions.
When in the realm of science it is said that a bad or wrong assumption and a question is far better than a question no assumption at all. (Though in science these assumptions are of course called theories.)

I will always favor investigated assumptions (without investigation an assumption is merely a statement of ignorance) over simple questions, at least in dealings with friends.

Limits: Your RTD, but slightly less realistic and slightly more realistic in places.

Which places shall become more realistic?

You'll need to define 'progression'. It's a vague term.

Not really when in context. The literary progression of the story. Since there can be no pivotal point or climactic moment there can be no progression. You have said there will be missions, and each may have its own progression, but as it is currently stated there can be no curve to the over-arching plot because the over-arching plot is a set piece. Without the curve there cannot be an end. No end, no progression.


EDIT  FOR  AIRSHIP  NINJA:

It looks interesting, Earthsea+DF+Steampunk+Homebrew.  Colour me intrigued.

[Tarran]

And yet we have all together embarked on a merry and tangential adventure in which we have discovered far more than we could have thought to simply ask.  A question creates an answer, nothing more. A good assumption can provide a thousand questions.

So should I assume stuff about your RTD rather than ask questions?

I will always favor investigated assumptions (without investigation an assumption is merely a statement of ignorance) over simple questions, at least in dealings with friends.

I'll respectfully ask that you do not follow that path with me, especially when those assumptions are negative. It makes you look like, well, an idiot to me, frankly. And it angers me.

Which places shall become more realistic?

You want me to be specific? And list everything? That is a hard question since slightly is very slightly. Moreso since I haven't even started it yet.

The most major ones are, no Psionics, no mutant plants and animals. No suitpeople.

Not really when in context. The literary progression of the story. Since there can be no pivotal point or climactic moment there can be no progression.

Please, tell me where I said there would be no pivotal moments. I do not remember.

You have said there will be missions, and each may have its own progression, but as it is currently stated there can be no curve to the over-arching plot because the over-arching plot is a set piece.

The plot will be no more set than in your RTD.

[Talarion]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, would anyone be interested in this (Mess of seemingly random thoughts )?

 An RTD that takes place in a world with automobiles, trains, firearms, semi-modern cities, airships, etc...
But also Gods, Magic, Dwarves, Elves, the Undead, Dragons and the like? I've been working on the setting for a while now, for a Freeroam forum RPG, but I'm considering doing a simpler, possibly cooperative adventure in RtD form as well.

 I find it kind of hard to explain the setting, especially as it's still a WIP, and there's just so much to it, but basically it's 'What if you took Medieval Fantasy, and then went forward in time until things were about WWII Era in terms of technology, with Magic and Mythical creatures still playing a large role.' that takes place in a world of small continents and islands spread amongst an infinite expanse of sea.

The current "Known" world is a little smaller than Europe, ignoring large bodies of water. And that world is filled with human towns and cities, (That happen to be a little on the generic side for the most part, but they're Humans, what do you expect? )

Expansive, industrial, Dwarvern cities within mountains, filled with networks of subway systems and factories.

The Elven cities, built within the trees of ancient forests. Although most Elves look down upon all the industrialism that the other races have turned to, and spend most of their time holed up in their forests. There are still an abundance of Elves that are a bit more lenient when it comes to that, and have integrated themselves into the societies of other races.

Then there are the 'Thelenawen' Elves, whom split up with the other Elves long ago, in favour of a more industrial, and warlike lifestyle themselves. However, they were driven away into a tiny corner of the known world by the Orcs during the 'Territory Wars'. (Which were basically battles over the continents and islands there were being newly discovered right after the invention of the Airship.)

Giant, Orcish Fortress-Cities, filled with Soldiers-in-training and factories pumping out weapons. Although they do sound like they'd be evil, they aren't really. Holding honor and such in high regards,
they just really love battle.

Goblin cities built into the cliffs and mountains of the dangerous, arid regions of the Northwest, using makeshift airships to travel from settlement to settlement to avoid the dangers that lie in the deserts below.

Ancient ruins of civilizations long forgotten, filled with undead and other dangers of course.

Magic, as I said, is still a common occurrence. Around 30% of the Human and Dwarvern Races are capable of using at least the simplest forms of magic. It's a bit more uncommon in Orcs and Goblins, but it's extremely common in Elven and Gnomish societies.

Gods are still worshiped, and from time to time choose to walk amongst the mortals.

Somewhat Castle in the Sky inspired, as far as airships go.

Firearms, for the most part, are somewhere around WWI-II level for the Humans, the Dwarves are a bit more advanced, and the Orcs make a lot of big, bulky weapons that can't really be described in our history's terms. The Elves still use Swords, Bows, and Magic, (While the Thelenawen use a combination of Melee Weapons, Magic, and Firearms), and the Goblins can use whatever they can. (Mostly small firearms, rifles, spears, and crossbows.)

I have enough to make a thousand RtDs in this setting, anything from soldiers, to adventurers, to criminals, to the crew of an airship, to explorers, to evil necromancers, to members of a rebel/freedom fighting group, to police officers...
 
But I'll only bother figuring out what the players will be doing, if they're actually interested in the first place.

Sounds good

[Gatleos]

On a side note to this obnoxious bickering, I think that the idea of a RtD that takes place in a high heroic fantasy novel, but with the players being normal run-of-the-mill peasants, has some great potential. Make the situations the players get into as unglamorous as possible while constantly contrasting it with the over-the-top dramatic and awesome exploits of a real party of adventurers. The players would be like hero caddies, carrying around the heroes' equipment and doing all the grunt work.

While the activities might normally be boring in a RtD, like making dinner, setting up camp and literal vermin extermination, it would be dramatized to as ridiculous a degree as possible and every misstep would turn into a ludicrous sitcom-esque symphony of ineptitude. The goal would be to simply survive the perilous adventure and try not to piss off the heroes too much. They're hardasses, naturally.


Also: sounds great, Aninimouse!

[Draignean]

Please, tell me where I said there would be no pivotal moments. I do not remember.

Plot: Fighting for a destroyed human 'colony' (more like second-earth due to the massive amount of people that lived there) just for the morale boost. No decisive fights, just plain slugging it out between two massive armies and fleets. Players play as elite, but non-special soldiers. May be human or no. Sent on important, but non world-winning missions. Mostly nonlinear storyline.

So should I assume stuff about your RTD rather than ask questions?

Yes, you already do this a great deal. There is an assumption, I correct parts of the assumption, the assumption comes back. It is generally the way investigative dialogue works unless one wishes to be extraordinarily technical and cold.

I'll respectfully ask that you do not follow that path with me, especially when those assumptions are negative. It makes you look like, well, an idiot to me, frankly. And it angers me.

Enhance you calm Tarran. When have I stated that these assumptions are negative? I (and Yoink) have already stated that even the most high and to the right versions of your idea have the seeds of a good idea. Yes we express misgivings, but we acknowledge the positives points of the idea. We are not attacking your idea, anger has no place in a thread that is purpose built for critique.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The plot will be no more set than in your RTD.

 
Than in what way can there be "No decisive fights," or "non world-winning missions"?

PPE: My time is done, I have to get to class. I will reply later.

[monk12]

The players would be like hero caddies, carrying around the heroes' equipment and doing all the grunt work.

British Announcer: And here we are joining our heroes at the lair of Oddok Rapepillage the Carnal Flame the dragon, a most dangerous foe indeed, with seven thousand kills to his name.
Hero: Alright, caddie, what do you think? The pike this time?
Caddie: Nay, milord, for you would not be able to use a shield to block the fire- I suggest the longsword.
Hero: Sword and board, eh? Alright, how are you reading the break on that cave entrance? Looks pretty left to right to me.
Caddie: Indeed, milord, with perhaps a bit of a gully towards the aft end. The wind is blowing from the east, so take care your scent is not carried to the fell beast.
Hero: Naturally, caddie! Tally ho, what!
British Announcer: The hero is approaching the cave, a nice aggressive stance, and here he goes.... ooh, he's a bit high and to the right, yes, it looks as though he fell in the water hazard. That'll cost him a few sword-strokes.
Dragon: Rawr!
Caddie: Oh bother, I knew I should have signed with Tigerman Woods.

[Tarran]

Plot: Fighting for a destroyed human 'colony' (more like second-earth due to the massive amount of people that lived there) just for the morale boost. No decisive fights, just plain slugging it out between two massive armies and fleets. Players play as elite, but non-special soldiers. May be human or no. Sent on important, but non world-winning missions. Mostly nonlinear storyline.

That's for the army on a whole. Not the players.

In addition, just because there's no decisive battles does not mean that there can be no winner. There's a finite amount of humans and aliens. Including their (space)ships, (water)ships, vehicles, and air(-space)craft. Someone has to win if they headbutt enough.

Enhance you calm Tarran. When have I stated that these assumptions are negative?

You never state it, but it is negative.

If someone assumes someone is fat, 9/10 it's a negative assumption.

And stop asking me to enhance my calm. It doesn't work with me.

I (and Yoink) have already stated that even the most high and to the right versions of your idea have the seeds of a good idea.

I didn't notice most of them with all the negative feedback.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The plot will be no more set than in your RTD.

Than in what way can there be "No decisive fights," or "non world-winning missions"?

No army can break the other in a few battles alone. Nobody can win the world by taking out a command ship or activating the magical anti-ship gun.

PS: If you're reading this in a mad voice, you fail. I am not mad.

[10ebbor10]

Plot: Fighting for a destroyed human 'colony' (more like second-earth due to the massive amount of people that lived there) just for the morale boost. No decisive fights, just plain slugging it out between two massive armies and fleets. Players play as elite, but non-special soldiers. May be human or no. Sent on important, but non world-winning missions. Mostly nonlinear storyline.

That's for the army on a whole. Not the players.

In addition, just because there's no decisive battles does not mean that there can be no winner. There's a finite amount of humans and aliens. Including their (space)ships, (water)ships, vehicles, and air(-space)craft. Someone has to win if they headbutt enough.

An army can even lose the war if they win enough Phyrrian victories. The succes of the individual battle might be great, but depending on the resources you had availble what looked like an amazing victory might be a great loss for the campaign.

[Tarran]

An army can even lose the war if they win enough Phyrrian victories. The succes of the individual battle might be great, but depending on the resources you had availble what looked like an amazing victory might be a great loss for the campaign.

I think you meant Pyrrhic, right?