Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Uristocrat]

> LOL OK. FPS death isn't "that big a deal". I expect there's vast swathes of DF players who will completely agree with you.

You need a profiler to actually know where code is slowing down.  Toady is the only one with one of those.  Otherwise, it might not be an AI problem, but thrashing in the VM where every item is on a different memory page and it has to drag them in and out of disk cache all the time.  Or any of many other things like that which aren't apparent to players.  That's why Toady wants saves.

But yes, I certainly hope for FPS improvements (like those we just got with respect to ghost lag).  Ultimately, though, I think that our expectations will scale with the code.  Someday, we might talk about "small" 8x8 embarks

> Rare enough that I can reproduce it at will on between 1/3-1/2 of the region tiles making large chunks of the world useless for exploring the underground.

That means you've modified worldgen settings in a way that doesn't work too well.  Try fixing your modifications?

> What, like I said on that very issue? Thanks for letting me know my own advice. I would never have considered it otherwise 

I don't see why two lines of fixing is worth so much angst.

> Saltwater coming from mountain streams/brooks/rivers is "arguably, realistic"? Are you from the same planet as the rest of us?

I was thinking more of salt marshes and salt lakes.  I actually live near the "Salt River" but it's not actual saltwater.  I understand that the tides can cause some coastal rivers to reverse, though.

> Again I'm sure there are vast swathes of DF players who will agree with you when a single Goblin Lasher wipes out most of their military who are clad in full steel armour.

I've seen the !!science!! threads by people doing proper tests with hundreds of dwarves.  Last I recall, whip injuries looked pretty realistic.  In any event, there are several mods that people have made to rebalance weapons.

> Actually if you bothered looking you'd see that the admins like Footkerchief & Logical2U do quite well to keep on top of all the duplicates & non-reproducible reports but hey why bother using facts when you can just make shit up instead?

Entries with no supporting information generally get ignored in every bug tracker I've seen.  This is for good reason, because the coders would go insane otherwise.  You can see a clear difference, because the ones that are reproduceable end up with zillions of comments (and duplicates... and duplicates with duplicate comments) while the other stuff may never get seen again.

But the broader point is this:  half of that stuff is fixable.  And you know how to fix it, so I don't understand getting upset.  It's a game.  A fun game.  Relax and have fun, okay?

[Dwarfu]

...while the other stuff may never get seen again.

LIES!

I'm constantly re-looking at reports and moving downloaded bugged saves to the new version to revisit them.

I know what you mean, though, so all the more reason to take your time and write up a good report with pics, saves, etc.

[Uristocrat]

...while the other stuff may never get seen again.

LIES!

I'm constantly re-looking at reports and moving downloaded bugged saves to the new version to revisit them.

I know what you mean, though, so all the more reason to take your time and write up a good report with pics, saves, etc.

Haha, I was thinking that the bug would never get seen again, not the bug report.  But you're right that the best way to get a fix for an issue that's really bothering you is to do a lot of work to really pin the bug down so that the coders can examine the bug in detail, find a fix and test it.

[Jeoshua]

I moddef clothes out of my game.  Completely.  As far as any civ or entity is considered, they do not exist. Nobody has [CLOTHING] or [SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]

I still get FPS death when I have alot of objects, however, my dwarves never die from running onto the battlefield for want of a silken sock.

[Uristocrat]

I moddef clothes out of my game.  Completely.  As far as any civ or entity is considered, they do not exist. Nobody has [CLOTHING] or [SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]

I still get FPS death when I have a lot of objects, however, my dwarves never die from running onto the battlefield for want of a silken sock.

I think that to do a proper test, you'd have to create some crazy reaction or something to transmute your clothing into, I dunno, stones, and see if your FPS improved.  But yeah, it's my opinion that it's high item count in general that's the problem, because I *know* that mining out tens of thousands of stone will do the trick and I just haven't seen my dwarves worrying about clothing (I'm pretty sure that unhappy thought was removed?)

Enough so that I'm wondering if separating stones from the other items in the lists would help somehow.  Of course, I don't know enough about how DF handles items internally to know if that even makes sense.

[Kogut]

Cloth lag is supposed to be caused by dwarfs looking for clothes - constantly as there are unable to find new. Maybe I will make 2 forts in the same embark, one with modded out need for clothes (forts should be identical, macro will be useful). But is it possible to set in game rand seed (to have the same migrants, traders etc)?

[Narmio]

Cloth lag is supposed to be caused by dwarfs looking for clothes - constantly as there are unable to find new. Maybe I will make 2 forts in the same embark, one with modded out need for clothes (forts should be identical, macro will be useful). But is it possible to set in game rand seed (to have the same migrants, traders etc)?

Easier to use one game, then duplicate it.  And magically vanish all the clothes in one by modding down their boiling points, then making a similar number of items.

You'd need to have a fort with *lots* of owned clothes, but it's very possible to prove or disprove the hypothesis "owned clothing produces more lag than an equal number of non-owned non-clothes" without a profiler or anything like that.

[Kogut]

Cloth lag is supposed to be caused by dwarfs looking for clothes - constantly as there are unable to find new. Maybe I will make 2 forts in the same embark, one with modded out need for clothes (forts should be identical, macro will be useful). But is it possible to set in game rand seed (to have the same migrants, traders etc)?

Easier to use one game, then duplicate it.  And magically vanish all the clothes in one by modding down their boiling points, then making a similar number of items.

You'd need to have a fort with *lots* of owned clothes, but it's very possible to prove or disprove the hypothesis "owned clothing produces more lag than an equal number of non-owned non-clothes" without a profiler or anything like that.

In this case it will not be so easy - dwarves will try to get new ones both with destroyed ones and badly damaged ones. But checking lag induced by items count also can be checked.

[Makbeth]

I would really like to see dwarves choose crafting materials, dump sites, water sources, etc based on path distance instead of straight-line distance.  I think that dwarves choosing the garbage dump on the surface 20 levels up - through twisty turny passages - over the garbage dump at the magma pool 21 tiles to the side of them, with a clear path to it and all, qualifies as a bug.

[Uristocrat]

I would really like to see dwarves choose crafting materials, dump sites, water sources, etc based on path distance instead of straight-line distance.  I think that dwarves choosing the garbage dump on the surface 20 levels up - through twisty turny passages - over the garbage dump at the magma pool 21 tiles to the side of them, with a clear path to it and all, qualifies as a bug.

That would kill your FPS, though.  No, really, pathfinding to all 20,000 stones in your fortress would be murder.

The best fix, IMHO, would be for it to consider z-distance a little bit further away than it currently does.  Something like max(dx, dy, dz<<3) (where dx, dy and dz are the differences between the current and target locations).

[kaypy]

On clothingFPS, I was thinking about a test along the lines of:
* Use a hack to embark with many many many dwarves at once
* Use custom reactions to create lots of armour and clothing
* Copy the save file
* Draft dwarves into military service so they dump their civvy clothes
* Undraft them
* Copy the save file
* Use the civvy uniforms workaround to make dwarves put on clothes
* Check framerates of the 3 save files

But thinking about it a bit more, it all seems irrelevent- any time spent on this maybebug would be better spent in making dwarves actually wear new clothes.

On the original topic, I would add the ever-spreading pools of blood to list. Sure there's workarounds, but its a lot of micromanagement.

So clothing, military awkwardness and slime, for me.

But the latest releases are definitely a step in the right direction, so I hope I'm not alone in sending Toady some $encouragement there 8-)

[PCpaste]

Dungeon master should definatley be fixed. Most important bug in my eyes at the moment.

[Uristocrat]

Dungeon master should definatley be fixed. Most important bug in my eyes at the moment.

It's hardly major, but I would like for crystal glass to work again, too.  Also, it may just be me, but it seems like gem diversity has gone *way* down since metals were changed.  Seems like I'll find two kinds of gems on the surface instead of a dozen.  But that could be my imagination or my embark.

[Urist Imiknorris]

It's basically gone down to one gem per layer.

[Uristocrat]

It's basically gone down to one gem per layer.

That's close to what I've found.  I'm *guessing* it's related to the metals (so that we have a fair amount of whatever metals, but not much diversity, and therefore have to trade), but there are like 50 gems and maybe 10 ores, so it feels a little weird.