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[Farseer]

http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/107852

This is an article on why the story is great, and I agree with it, except for the part with Torment (I can't agree with it since i've never really gotten myself to finish it).

To me, that article says, "I read far too much into my character and have basically roleplayed the entire game, forcing myself to suspend disbelief and invent facets to my character that are not in game." The person is reading too much into, at most, B- writing. Individual dialogues in BioWare games are AMAZING, overall plot structure etc? Shit as hell.

Why are sidequests in BioWare games so black and white, too? Even in DAO they were. You can say, "Yeah, but there's no karma meter!" all you like, but there are usually obvious "good and evil" choices.

Off the top of my head, here's a quest that is entirely morally gray and depends on an ethical choice rather than a "good vs evil" one: A hooker murders someone. As you delve deeper into the quest, you find out that the person she murdered was her pimp, and he used to beat her notoriously. She ended up killing him with a knife after he was coming at her to beat her and she was worried he was going to kill her. There're a wide range of choices, obviously, but the main two are 1) turn her in and 2) let her go free. This is a choice of law versus disorder or something, instead of anything else. It's about a person's ethics rather than "do I want to be good or evil?".

[Domenique]

This was like DA2 main plotline + most of the sidequests. It wasn't good versus evil, it was opinion versus opinion, lawful versus chaotic, mages versus templars, this is why DA2 storyline is so much better. It was more of a personal story, you're not a hero to save the world, you're just a guy who happened to be in a certain place at a certain time to have weight in conclusion.

[Rakonas]

Yeah, only the end parts were truly black vs. white, nearly every decision in the game was some sort of gray. The issue was more of that I felt like it was shoved in my face with horror everywhere bordering on grimderp.

[Farseer]

It's not really lawful versus chaotic. It's quite blatantly oppressor versus the oppressed.

Saying, "Derp derp mages can be bad" is retarded. It's really not lawful vs chaotic.

[LoSboccacc]

This was like DA2 main plotline + most of the sidequests. It wasn't good versus evil, it was opinion versus opinion, lawful versus chaotic, mages versus templars, this is why DA2 storyline is so much better. It was more of a personal story, you're not a hero to save the world, you're just a guy who happened to be in a certain place at a certain time to have weight in conclusion.

so, how does it relates to the witcher?

[KaguroDraven]

There is only one option I was saddened that DA2 lacked. I LIKE the Qunari, I like the idea behind the Qun, I dislike how they treat their mages but that's not the point at the moment, I wanted a chance to request to be taught the ways of the Qun from the Arishok.

[Domenique]

This was like DA2 main plotline + most of the sidequests. It wasn't good versus evil, it was opinion versus opinion, lawful versus chaotic, mages versus templars, this is why DA2 storyline is so much better. It was more of a personal story, you're not a hero to save the world, you're just a guy who happened to be in a certain place at a certain time to have weight in conclusion.

so, how does it relates to the witcher?

Dude, what ?

It's not really lawful versus chaotic. It's quite blatantly oppressor versus the oppressed.

Saying, "Derp derp mages can be bad" is retarded. It's really not lawful vs chaotic.

It's more visible in SQ.

There is only one option I was saddened that DA2 lacked. I LIKE the Qunari, I like the idea behind the Qun, I dislike how they treat their mages but that's not the point at the moment, I wanted a chance to request to be taught the ways of the Qun from the Arishok.

That would be way too off-storyline, though I would have wished that as well, but it would be too hard to create so many storylines.

[KaguroDraven]

Make it the same as the

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

'Shepard Dies'

ending of ME2 in that a game with that save is strictly non-canon and cannot be transfered to the next game(if there is one) and just start giveing the epilouge there. It would be fun just as a small gift to people who liked what we learned of the Qun from Sten in DAO.


Also, both sides of the MagesVTemplars thing have their points, but both sides want to go too far.

[Domenique]

Make it the same as the

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

'Shepard Dies'

ending of ME2 in that a game with that save is strictly non-canon and cannot be transfered to the next game(if there is one) and just start giveing the epilouge there. It would be fun just as a small gift to people who liked what we learned of the Qun from Sten in DAO.


Also, both sides of the MagesVTemplars thing have their points, but both sides want to go too far.

Yes but sadly the devs didn't have much time...

Yes, it's usually a choice between two extremes, in life there's not always a middle point. Historically Lithuania had to choose between Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, that's kinda hard choice..

[scriver]

Side Note:Is it bad that my mage spent the entire One on One boss fight with the Arishok running away and takeing potshots at him?

My usually ass kicking Rouge did the same. Very ridiculous. I spent what, twenty minutes or so running around in circles and swigging potions, and they hail me as their "Champion"?

Why are sidequests in BioWare games so black and white, too? Even in DAO they were. You can say, "Yeah, but there's no karma meter!" all you like, but there are usually obvious "good and evil" choices.

Off the top of my head, here's a quest that is entirely morally gray and depends on an ethical choice rather than a "good vs evil" one: A hooker murders someone. As you delve deeper into the quest, you find out that the person she murdered was her pimp, and he used to beat her notoriously. She ended up killing him with a knife after he was coming at her to beat her and she was worried he was going to kill her. There're a wide range of choices, obviously, but the main two are 1) turn her in and 2) let her go free. This is a choice of law versus disorder or something, instead of anything else. It's about a person's ethics rather than "do I want to be good or evil?".

That is still a rather black and white example; "oppressed vs oppressor". It's even self-defence. Even if what she did was illegal, it's still clear who was "good" and who was "bad". It would be much greyer if the one she killed wasn't so obviously immoral, like if she killed an innocent child of his as well.

Yes, it's usually a choice between two extremes, in life there's not always a middle point. Historically Lithuania had to choose between Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, that's kinda hard choice..

Sweden thought they had to chose between those very same choices. The USA-way turned out to be a great third option, even if we took it a bit late.

There is only one option I was saddened that DA2 lacked. I LIKE the Qunari, I like the idea behind the Qun, I dislike how they treat their mages but that's not the point at the moment, I wanted a chance to request to be taught the ways of the Qun from the Arishok.

Going a bit offtopic here, but what did you like about it? In my mind, or rather as I understood it, the Qunari treat all their people like they treat their mages, except the chains are sociological (or should it be social?) and mental instead of physical.

[Farseer]

That is still a rather black and white example; "oppressed vs oppressor". It's even self-defence. Even if what she did was illegal, it's still clear who was "good" and who was "bad". It would be much greyer if the one she killed wasn't so obviously immoral, like if she killed an innocent child of his as well.

Ultimately, the results are completely gray. If the hero carries on letting people go, then that's a dissolution of law. What's the point of law if no one ever gets punished? Even a single person can set a bad example. The hero gets harrassed by criminals who don't think they've done anything wrong but are being punished by the law.

You don't need to overcomplicate the action to see complex results. The fact she killed an "innocent child" just makes everyone into a dick instead of having a "bad character" who's a dick and a "good character" who still kills a person. Maybe you could make it that she kills him in cold blood, I don't know.

[scriver]

Fair points. I agree making her kill him in cold blood might be a better option. On the other hand, if the potential child-killing could be more of an accidental consequence of her attempt to kill the pimp.. That would be even better.
Of course, you might be right about it turning them both in to jerks. I guess it's mostly a result of me not thinking it's actually grey unless both are somehow victims as well as aggressors.

[KaguroDraven]

There is only one option I was saddened that DA2 lacked. I LIKE the Qunari, I like the idea behind the Qun, I dislike how they treat their mages but that's not the point at the moment, I wanted a chance to request to be taught the ways of the Qun from the Arishok.

Going a bit offtopic here, but what did you like about it? In my mind, or rather as I understood it, the Qunari treat all their people like they treat their mages, except the chains are sociological (or should it be social?) and mental instead of physical.

The Qunari priests teach children while they grow up and watch the children, when the child reaches mid-adulthood they are tested to see what profession they are best suited for and sent to do that. They have 'names' as we understand them but only the priesthood bother to use them, and only for the purposes of chooseing two people to breed to attempt to have children ment for a specific path in life, otherwise their job and their position in what they work is what they consiter to be their name. IE:Sten in DAOs name is his possition in the Qunari, an Infantry Commander of the Beresaad. All people who follow the Qun know their 'purpose' from a young age, it is obviously a bit constricting as chooseing a new path in life is forbiddon, but in some ways its better than people doing all kinds of insane things, which can lead to themselves or others being hurt, out of greed or a desire to find their path in life.

[pilgrimboy]

I can't wait for Dragon Age 3 to come out.  Then the complete Dragon Age 2 will have been released.  I will play it then. 

[breadbocks]

I would like to be a Qun. They are just.... likable. And it seems a lot more like what communism (Which I think is ideal if done right.) should be.