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[Robsoie]

I guess it must be amusing to run into a high level rare temporal warden generated with its own time hounds.
The same kind of fun it was to run into a high level oozemancer

That was interesting. I didn't know you could run into sashy twice in one run. I now have two crowns of burning pain >_>

I thought it was a bug when i ran into her 3 times in a row on the same level and started a collection of crowns a few ToME4 versions ago, but i was told that it wasn't a bug but some intended side effect of splitting the timeline with some overuse of Precognition.

[Frumple]

Yeah, I haven't used precognition at all. Err... well, the forth tier talent in that tree, anyway. Precog's just a fancy track. Just ran into the cultists in two different zones.

As for enemy wardens with temporal hounds, that's actually probably not much of a problem, usually. They take a while to generate and if the AI's not getting hung up on them they're considerably less of an issue, plus it takes fairly careful use of blink and breath to really squeeze the use out of 'em. If the AI had the brains to just flatline their HP and then dip until they unraveled, or just juke the blink, they wouldn't be nearly as useful. That said, I haven't actually seen any rare wardens toting doges around, so it may be disabled or somethin'.

In other news, shantiz and warden call do not play together very well. Like, at all. As near as I can tell it makes it incredibly likely your temporal clone lightning-splodes your arrows, causing a good 100+ damage and daze. Basically every time you shoot something. It's... unpleasant. And unfortunate. I love the imbablade, but it's pretty much unusable on a warden with warden's call. Which I'll reiterate sucks. Blowing up projectiles with AoE daze effects from both a distance and in melee, sometimes twice a turn, would be incredible.

E: Though I will say spreading the wintertide ice storm around while you're shooting people with a bow is... pretty nice. So's pinging them with a 44% gloom chance dagger at the same time >_>

What I'm saying is the call is pretty nice once you've got some particularly sexy proc effects. After this character's done m'probably going to kick open adventurer and see if they can trigger arcane combat :V

[Oneir]

What I'm saying is the call is pretty nice once you've got some particularly sexy proc effects. After this character's done m'probably going to kick open adventurer and see if they can trigger arcane combat :V

I'm reasonably sure the clones are literally you, but with sustains turned off (?) and limited choice of active skills. So all passives should work for adventurer shenanigans.

[Tnx]

Is there any "New game+" and/or farming bosses in this game?  I know I bought it and played it a bit wayyy back but I don't think I got far.

[Darkmere]

Is there any "New game+" and/or farming bosses in this game?  I know I bought it and played it a bit wayyy back but I don't think I got far.

It's a very anti-grinding roguelike, so there's no ARPG-style grinding, no.

However, there is a way to grind up XP and random gear about mid-way through the game, with some associated risk.

However... the New Game+ appeal comes from the absurd quantity of unlockables to be hand. There's loads of new classes and a couple races, along with some character building options that are unlocked through playing. One of the main draws is playing through new classes and seeing new things.

[Frumple]

I'm reasonably sure the clones are literally you, but with sustains turned off (?) and limited choice of active skills. So all passives should work for adventurer shenanigans.

Sustain's aren't off, actually, or at least instant ones can turn back on. My chaotic warden's clones constantly kick beyond the flesh on and off.

---

As for the NG+, you can go on to the infinite dungeon after victory, though I think you still lack the ability to break the level 50 gap in the vanilla transfer -- I want to say the infinite 500 mod fixes(/changes) that. Starting off in the ID lets you keep going beyond 50, and eventually level talents past 5, iirc.

There's also farming advn. parties, eastern ambushes, and your house's dingus, though those are all pretty much guaranteed to eventually kill you. You can start the first one pretty much right off the bat, but that's a really good way to splat a very low level character, ha.

There's not really much of a need for it, though. It's actually difficult to not cap out on XP by the time you beat the game, and loot is pretty much always plentiful. Gold grinding is actually what folks that nom on overland encounters are usually after, generally to get that delicious merchant artifact or top off some cash for picking up some sort of training.

[Oneir]

Wandering encounters are also good for early items, too. You can get high-level rares from them early...which is probably part of why they kill you so good. Is it just me, or do adventurers parties almost all disappear by the midgame? I feel like I only ever get Zigur patrols after a while.

[Frumple]

That would probably be because the zigur parties are killing them, sounds like. They'll do that, and if you're predating on them, too (especially if you're not trimming down the zig spawns, as well), there's not going to be many able to stick around long enough for you to find.

Really, the best overworld farmers are undead -- they can eat everything instead of just advn. parties and maybe zig patrols. It's faintly great, providing you're running something that can actually kill everything.

But nah, the early 40s, back from east, TW I've got at the moment still sees 'em often enough. Zig parties, too, o'course.

[Oneir]

Wow, that's some hilarious natural selection. It's a shame you can't selectively breed stronger adventurer patrols to wipe out the Zigs...and, for that matter, that destroying Ziguranth doesn't stop the patrols.

[Stuebi]

I got the game off-a steam sale, and boy, is it breaking me hard.

I'm doing fine until around level 10, at which point the game tends to absolutely annihilate me at every turn. I got furthest with the Alchemist class, mostly because the Golem was tanking absolutely everything for me. But there's still the ocassional

*Enter room, see Dragon, reroll character*

THe worst one was a quest to investigate a Crypta near some village. Entered, met Vampire Lady, she literally ports me to the Hell plane where I promptly burn to death. I'm not really seeing how that is fair, but then again, being fair probably isnt what this game is about.

Does anybody have some suggestions for beginner-friendly characters? I find it really hard to tell what to skill on most of them, and the magic ones in particular get overwhelming really fast.

[ChairmanPoo]

Alchemists. Max bomb range and alchemist protection while enhacing your golem.

My traditional starting character - and the most successful by far, once you get all your golem-boosters (including instaresurrection)

[Robsoie]

THe worst one was a quest to investigate a Crypta near some village. Entered, met Vampire Lady, she literally ports me to the Hell plane where I promptly burn to death. I'm not really seeing how that is fair, but then again, being fair probably isnt what this game is about.

The graveyard that is near the city of Last Hope ? if it's that, do NOT go there with a low level character , you're only going to be destroyed !

The thing in ToME4 is that there are dungeons/zones that are tailored for low level , mid level or high level, so entering a specific dungeon before your character is strong enough for it will usually be a sure way to game over.

Here's some help for new players that will allow you to build your character better and ending with it dead less often :
http://te4.org/wiki/Guides#New_Players

[Frumple]

If you're playing off steam and having a lot of trouble, you might want to just play in exploration mode a few times until you get the hang of things. Most class/race combinations can pretty easily coast on up to the early/mid thirties and far east without much trouble, once you've got a better idea what you're doing (and maybe just not playing on roguelike :V).

Otherwise, check this or this (for something a little more detailed) which has some mild spoilers and a rough picture of the order you should be doing zones in.

Sounds like you stumbled into the last hope graveyard with that vamp thing, which is something you probably shouldn't be touching until you're at least level 18 or so -- a lot of people hold off on it until the 20s or 30s, even. Zones should be having a sort of flavor message when you enter it giving you a rough idea of how dangerous the place is for your current level -- paying attention to that is often a good idea when you're starting out, heh.

[Darkmere]

Yeah that message doesn't explain shit when you're brand new.

"This area is scary!" ... yeah, I walked into a graveyard. So?

I wonder how many people just get absolutely fed up with the game quickly before realizing that you can do all 6 of the starter dungeons in a very easy order (that is almost never the one you start with) to make the early game very easy.

The "main quest" telling you to skip 4 dungeons is dumb as well.

Does anybody have some suggestions for beginner-friendly characters? I find it really hard to tell what to skill on most of them, and the magic ones in particular get overwhelming really fast.

Alchemist is about as easy at it gets, though I haven't played one in years. Most of the classes come down to picking a set of trees that all synergize, once you've either read a guide or died a bunch trying to learn. If you're up for reading, I wrote a long-winded alchemy guide Here.

It's pretty outdated. Short version:

Shalore, explosive admixtures first, max alchemist protection ASAP, then the others. Get the golem heal and let it run ahead to tank. Fire infusion is best.

Try the dungeons in this order:

Trollmire (DO NOT enter area 4. You'll get a warning if you should proceed, skip for now), north of Derth in the north middle of the map.
Norgos' lair, east of Trollmire.
Derth Arena, talk to the shady guy in town. You'll have to kill 3 jerks in a pit fight for delicious skill pionts.
Heart of the gloom, near Norgos' lair.
Kor'pul, the tower near Derth and Trollmire. go back to the last Trollmire area now, kill that area 4 boss. You should be fine.
Rhaloren camp, southwest on the map near Elvala.
Irritating Crystal Asshole Factory whose name I forget because I hate it, near the Rhaloren camp.

That should be a good start. The ones after this point that you Should Not Do are: Elven Ruins, Last Hope Cemetery, Mark of the Spellblaze, Dreadfell. Sometime about now there should be a pop-up saying you hear screams in a dark crypt or something. This is a one-time encounter that will quite likely Kill You Dead. avoid it for a few games until you have a better handle on things.

[lemon10]

You never get the crypt pre 20. The first popup zone is typically (always?) a place filled with bandits, which isn't particularly dangerous, and you really want to do it as it allows you to get really good artifacts later on.

I also feel the need to point out that I personally find Heart of the Gloom the most dangerous of the starter dungeons.