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Author Topic: Speed up Magma  (Read 922 times)

lorb

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Speed up Magma
« on: February 22, 2011, 10:38:36 am »

I have built me an obsidian factory but have one Problem: the flow of magma is sooooo slow
Since i think that a wider tunnel will speed things up i have dug a 3wide corridor to my magma-source (volcano)
Now the thing is: There is a 1 tile bottleneck entry. Looks like this:
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXooooo
XXXXXXXXXXXooooo
,,,,,,,,Xooooooo
,,,,,,,, ooooooo
,,,,,,,,Xooooooo
XXXXXXXXXooooooo
XXXXXXXXXXXooooo
XXXXXXXXXXXXoooo

XXX=Wall
,,,=Ground
ooo=Magma

The empty space in the center is the tile my miner just dug out ... the magma is now flowing and slowly filling the (long) tunnel.
How can i speed this up? Is the bottleneck the problem or is 3 tiles still too narrow?
The volcano is a bit of and so it has to go >100 tiles and it takes ages.

and is there a way to make a bigger breach into the side of a volcano?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:40:47 am by lorb »
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"This tile is supported by that wall."

Sphalerite

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 10:42:31 am »

Magma flows slowly.  To make it flow fast, use pumps.
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ikkonoishi

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 11:23:00 am »

Widening the tunnel is the worst thing you could do.
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Starver

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 11:28:18 am »

As suggested, pumps help, by building up a guaranteed 7/7ths magma on the outward side of the pump, as long as there's a supply on the inward, at least.  My tapping of magma channels is generally by smoothing then fortifying the wall between the magma source and the magmaduct I've just dug[1], which gives plenty of time for the stoneworker to wander away, if I've connected diagonally into it.  But it's slow, when I do that.  As you don't (unless you time it very well) have two or more separate fortifiers working side-by-side, the gap is only one-wide, however.

But, it's possible (though too late for your situation, as it is for the installation of pumps unless you have somewhere else with a shut-off valve) that you could make several individual breaches into the magma-pipe, separated and floodgated so that each of them can be made without danger from the others pouring through, all leading into the 'main' magmaduct.  I'm not entirely sure if this would feed as I think it would, but with 7/7ths present behind a number floodgates all opening onto the wider magmaduct.

As a not-perfect example:
Code: [Select]
#######oooooooooo
########ooooooooo
####++xHooooooooo
####X###ooooooooo
+++++##oooooooooo
+++++XHoooooooooo
+++++##oooooooooo
####X###ooooooooo
####++xHooooooooo
########ooooooooo
#########oooooooo

#= Rock, + = dug out rock, X and x = Floodgates, H = Fortifications, o = Magma

Dig and place the floodgates before doing anything else (if you're not using any other tricks to prevent stuck dwarves, dig only up to the "X" squares first, fill them with floodgates, then open them so you can dig and emplace the 'x' floodgates).

Once you have the two 'x' gates and the central 'X' one in place, and operational, one by one open them, set to smoothing and fortifying (my preference) or just dig through (more dangerous, but might give better flow, I'm not sure what the current state is of Magmaflow dynamics, I've played safe for so long).  Slam them shut immediately you get magma-flow (and, obviously, the dwarf is out of the way), and let any magma that got through evaporate as necessary, then work on the next one in the same way.

Once that's all set, and all is ready, close the non-central 'X' gates and open the 'x' gates to fill the small feeder channels up to to the non-central 'X's.  Now you have three floodgates ready to unleash magma into a 3-tile-wide magmaduct.

If it works as I anticipate (ICVWBW) you'll get a progress of magma roughly the same speed of a 1-wide gap supplying a 1-wide duct, only tripled in volume.


It certainly will stop the biggest problem with supplying a 3-tile-wide duct (aqua or magma) with a 1-tile-wide entrance hall, the fact that unless there is pressure behind the liquid concerned, the 'front' of the flow (and perhaps some tiles behind) will be 1/7th and liable to evaporate spontaneously even while you're willing the liquid to reach the other end.  It won't stop it[2], but might well slow the flow down, in a way that the 3-wide supply won't be so subjected to.   That point effectively ninjaed by ikkonoishi.


[1] And smoothed, and cleared of useful debris/wall material, and replaced the mined-out walls constructed replacements made of blocks of the same stuff as the 'base' material surrounding it....  I spend too much time on that, though. :)

[2] Although I've previously 'fanned out' a liquid to spill over a large enough plain to get an equilibrium point of spread beyond which it has so much 1/7ths that evaporate that it doesn't tend to travel any further, when deliberately trying to 'lose' liquid without atom-smashing or sending through edge-fortifications or into 'sink' aquifers/etc)
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lorb

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 03:29:11 pm »

The point why i have 3 tile instead of 1 or 2 tile wide tunnel is because i figured that it could transport more magma and refill the magma-cistern faster.
Your design looks good Starver but i can only do that next time, it's too late now.
Another thing: i still have access from above (this is ~20z level below the top of the volcano) and could breach the volcano a second time one z level above.
Would it be better to channel out some floor above the existing tunnel (near the volcano) or dig a new tunnel and only join the magma-flows right before the cistern?
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"This tile is supported by that wall."

Buttery_Mess

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 04:24:45 pm »

Widening the tunnel is the worst thing you could do.

Widening the tunnel can help a bit, because magma can only flop out of a 1x wide gap quickly if it has somewhere to flop to. If the tunnel is wider the magma won't be as high near the bottleneck, which means more magma will find its way to another tile in the tunnel, lowering the level of magma in the bottleneck, which will then be fed in faster from the source of magma.

But yeah you don't want to spread magma out over too wide an area, otherwise it will (somehow) dry up at the extremities, making it take an eternity to fill. Long 1x tunnels are fairly useless though. A series of 3x tunnels of finite length might be more effective, if seperated by floodgates or bridges, you could fill up one, then the other, and so on in a row to minimise the drying effect.
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Big Bee

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 07:04:33 pm »

Ah, magma.  I think I may have actually solved this problem; I use it for my magma workshops farm.

Call the z-layer that you want to transport magma in 'layer 0,' and the layer above it 'layer 1.'

Layer 0: Make that three-tile wide tunnel in layer 0 (yes, do it), but have it bump up against a flatish area of the magma tube.  Don't break through yet.  Dig or construct six or 9 upward stairways for the tiles in the tunnel closest to the magma tube.

Layer 1: Build two 1-tile-wide access tunnels so that they are 1 tile apart and positioned directly above the transport tunnel in layer zero.  Dig downward stairways that connect to the upward stairways from layer 0.  Build two firesafe doors in the access tunnels, so that the downward stairways are between the doors and the magma.

Fun (!!FUN!!?) stuff:  In layer 1, have two miners dig channels in those last two tiles between the access tunnels and the magma.  When the magma breaks through, the miners will run away without harm.  Magma will flow into the transport tunnel both from layer 0 and down the stairways from layer 1.

Build permanent walls to prevent anyone from opening those doors!

Layer 0:
Code: [Select]
######ooo
######ooo
..<<<#ooo
.....#ooo
..<<<#ooo
######ooo
######ooo

Layer 1:
Code: [Select]
######ooo
######ooo
.D>>>%ooo
######ooo
.D>>>%ooo
######ooo
######ooo

LEGENDE:
# = ROCKE
. = FLOORE
< & > = STAIRSE
D = DOORE
% = ROCKE TO BE CHANNELEDE
0 = MAGMAE

I do this all the time!  It's great for setting up a magma workshop area quickly, so that I can get bored and make a different fort.
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: Speed up Magma
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 08:11:25 am »

Yeah I was thinking about that last night, it's a good plan. Digging on two levels really is the best way to get magma out of the side of a volcano tube.
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But .... It's so small!
It's not the size of the pick that counts... it's the size of the man with the pick.
Quote from: Toady One
Naturally, we'd like to make life miserable for everybody, randomly, but that'll take some doing.