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Author Topic: need noobi help with trade  (Read 1408 times)

Bo-Rufus CMVII

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need noobi help with trade
« on: February 22, 2011, 12:08:49 am »

Could someone explain how trade works, or direct me to some existing documentation?  I haven't been able to turn up anything useful on the wiki or with Teh Google.

I get the caravan, and it lets me go in and adjust the sliders to show my priorities.  (I presume this is my requests for their next visit, but I don't know for sure.)

After that I don't get any options for interactions.  The screens give me 'a' for reviewing the documents, and nothing else.  And I can't do anything on the documents pages except press ESC to exit. (There are some action letters at the bottom, but pressing them doesn't do anything.)

Any help will be appreciated, thanks.
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Dwarfu

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 12:23:47 am »

Hit '?' while in game.

Select Your First Outpost.
Select Trading.
Select The Trade Depot Interface.

The text screens that are popping up are for your expedition leader/mayor to speak with the liaison.  Yes, you are requesting goods for the next year.

To actually trade goods, you have to build a trade depot and use its interface to bring goods to it, sell them, and buy what the merchants have brought.  You will also have to appoint a broker in the noble screen.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 12:26:44 am by Dwarfu »
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Bo-Rufus CMVII

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 09:15:36 am »

I guess I need more detail.  I was able to move stuff into the Depot using 'q'.  But nothing else happened.  I requested a trader and both he and the liason spent some time in the Depot together, but he left unhappy.
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Flaede

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 09:43:05 am »

I guess I need more detail.  I was able to move stuff into the Depot using 'q'.  But nothing else happened.  I requested a trader and both he and the liason spent some time in the Depot together, but he left unhappy.

Hm. You're right, the wiki only starts explaining "after you've entered the trade menu".
You do have to (r)equest the trader (that part's in the wiki). The trick is you wait until the trader is in the depot, then the (t)rade menu is an option. If the trader is a lazy bum and won't show up, you can change the settings to let anyone trade, so that at least someone will come trade, though with less skill (you still then have to wait for whoever they are to show up).

NOTE: The more stuff is in the depot when the trading starts (only once a trading season), the higher the appraisal skill for the trader rises. This is useful to know if you actually want prices on things. If your trader has no appraisal (or the random dwarf, if your trader was lazy), then you get no prices. This makes trading much more difficult, as all you get is the weights of the various trade goods.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

foop

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 09:53:02 am »

Once the caravan turns up:

1) Move goods to depot.  I usually hit d to sort by value so I know I'm bringing valuable (or worthless) stuff.

2) request trader at depot.  If he thinks moving seeds to a stockpile is a better use of his time, turn off hauling and anything else.

3) When trader is at depot (if his status is "trade at depot" he could still be on his way), trade will un-gray.  Hit it.

4) Select stuff on the left you want to buy, and stuff on the right you want to sell.  Note that
    a) There's a weight limit (see bottom right), so you can't unload tonnes of rock unless you buy equally heavy stuff from the caravan.
    b) Elves don't like buying wooden stuff; a mistake I often make is to accidentally select a wooden bin for trading.

Generally speaking, for early trades where your broker may be a bit rubbish the traders might want a healthy profit. 
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Buttery_Mess

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 11:30:00 am »

When you build a depot (b > D) an architect has to turn up an design it before it can be built. So, make sure you have one dwarf with that labour enabled.

It's best to build a depot before your caravan arrives, because dwarves are excellent at finding other things to do when you need them to get busy with trade.

You don't absolutely need a broker, if memory serves, but you should assign one anyway. In order to gauge the value of items, a broker (assigned with the noble screen, hit n to open that) needs to have the appraise skill. If no-one has it, don't worry, it's easy to raise.

When a trade caravan turns up (which for dwarves will be announced most prominently by the arrival of the outpost liason), select your built trade depot and hit g to select goods you want to sell. Dwarves will bring the items to the depot. Dwarves will do this even with no hauling labours enabled, but sometimes dwarves seem to prioritise other tasks over taking things to the depot, so if they're not bringing things fast enough, deactivate their labours.

When you want to trade, select the depot and hit r to request a trader. By default, this will be the assigned broker. Trading is the last thing any dwarf ever seems to want to do, and in my experience brokers will insist on getting a full night's sleep, eating, getting something to drink and then going for a smoko before they actually bother turning up, even when they have no labours enabled. But, if you want your broker to trade, then you should deactivate his labours. (He may turn up anyway even with the labours enabled, but don't hold your breath).

I prefer to have any dwarf turn up to trade. The broker with the appraise skill doesn't need to be in the depot for you to see the prices of goods. Having him turn up just means he will improve the appraise skill. Hit b to select any dwarf to trade, if you wish. This makes it more likely someone will turn up to trade sooner rather than later, even if you don't fiddle about with labours. If you don't have anyone with the appraise skill, it doesn't matter who turns up; you can make them gain the appraise skill and then make them your broker. Brokers don't have to do anything special, they just let you see item values, so it doesn't matter who the broker is as long as they have at least a little of the appraise skill. But, you may get more accurate value readings if they have a higher skill.

When someone turns up at the depot to trade, if they don't have the appraise skill, then press t to trade, select an item on your list of items (preferably a less valuable one, but it has to be one you've made, which shows up in brown) and hit o to offer it to the traders for free. This makes them like you more, but more importantly, it counts as a trade and will improve your trader's appraise skill. Exit the window (so that the skill increase is tallied), and hit t to open it up again. If you offer up 3 or 4 items, (or if you wish, trade 3 or 4 items, it makes little difference) then your trader will gain the appraise skill, and you can make sensible, equitable trades. Be sure to exit the trade depot query and set that trader to be your broker. Then, you will be able to see item values, and can enter the trade screen, and trade as normal.

Trading is fairly self-explanatory, the screen isn't too hard to understand.
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But .... It's so small!
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Bo-Rufus CMVII

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 12:49:19 am »

Thanks - it went much better this time.

A couple more questions -

Am I supposed to do anything on the "review documents" screens?

Is there a way for me to view my stocks when a trade is not in progress?

Can you pre-store stuff in the Depot, long before a trader arrives?

Also:  On the trade screen a lot of items are truncated to the point you can't tell what it is, even though there is plenty of room for more text.
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Bo-Rufus CMVII

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 12:52:19 am »

Also, do you risk missing something you want if you don't wait until the visitors finish unloading their goods?
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sdrawkcabcM tsirU

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 01:00:06 am »


Am I supposed to do anything on the "review documents" screens?
I don't think you can do anything?
Quote
Is there a way for me to view my stocks when a trade is not in progress?
Yes, but you have to assign a bookeeper, give him an office and then modify his settings in the nobles screen to keep more accurate counts.
Quote
Can you pre-store stuff in the Depot, long before a trader arrives?
I believe you can start moving items there once a caravan appears on the map, but not before.
Quote
Also:  On the trade screen a lot of items are truncated to the point you can't tell what it is, even though there is plenty of room for more text.
You can make good guesses about what the item is by looking at the items above and below it. Also, I think there is a (v)iew option if you want a full name/description.
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Flaede

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 01:47:29 am »

Is there a way for me to view my stocks when a trade is not in progress?
Yes, but you have to assign a bookeeper, give him an office and then modify his settings in the nobles screen to keep more accurate counts.
It's the stocks screen in the 'z' menu. To get more info than a "you have over 10 of this thing" you need a bookkeeper, who has an office, and has settings changed in the 'n'obles screen. If you have accurate counts you can look at the details screen of any item, zoom to the location of any item, and even mass un/forbid/dump/hide things from the stock screen. Without a bookeeper, you can only do this if you have under 10 of the item type.

It is a very useful list.

Can you pre-store stuff in the Depot, long before a trader arrives?
I believe you can start moving items there once a caravan appears on the map, but not before.

Yes, and after caravans pack up, the things left in the depot are removed and taken back to their storage areas... unless you forbid them. Which is kind of glitchy and not really recommended.
protip - My favourite trick is to dump trade goods into a "garbage chute" directly over the middle of the depot. They land forbidden, and you can unforbid them when the trade caravan comes. Then just assign them to be "carried to the depot" and almost the moment a hauler shows up and they are immediately up for trading. The only time this is a bad plan is if your trade goods can rot (like food).

Otherwise, just store tradegoods close to the depot.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

ricree

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Re: need noobi help with trade
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 02:25:04 am »

Am I supposed to do anything on the "review documents" screens?
Not really.  It tells you what things will cost relative to their normal value during the next trade period, but it isn't really important now.

Quote
Is there a way for me to view my stocks when a trade is not in progress?

Hit 'z'.  It will bring up a fortress summary menu.  Use the arrow keys to select different menus in it.  One of these is the stocks menu.  It will always give a rough estimate of what you have, but you'll need a bookeeper to get a totally accurate count.

Quote
Can you pre-store stuff in the Depot, long before a trader arrives?

No, but I'd suggest investing in some wood bins (made in the craftdwarf workshop).  The dwarves will carry the whole bin at once instead of the individual items.  Once your fortress gets going, it doesn't take many bins to buy everything you will want from a caravan.

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