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[FearfulJesuit]

Yes, it sounds very simple. But I think it might work, maybe with a little tweaking.

What you do is, you appoint a banker noble. He needs, or will acquire, the record keeper and appraiser skills. (Maybe organizer too?) Banking is all he does.
He will work in the "bank" building, which can be made out of a chair (for him to sit at), a table, and a bin (to keep coins in).

Metalcrafters will still mint coins. But what about coin stockpiles? Ah, there's the beauty of it! The bank *is* the coin stockpile. Dwarves will receive coins from their bosses (probably not gonna be implemented for some time) or from being paid for things, and they will not haul their coins to the bank until they go on break.

The other beauty of this is, banks have never really moved money around. They simply shift numbers on ledgers. This means that if you do not appoint a banker noble, dwarves are going to keep using a "broken" economy- they'll keep splitting coins up and create so many hauling jobs that nothing gets done. But, when you appoint a banker noble, they only have to pay for a few things, like trinkets and (maybe?) food or drink, and we could probably have them carry some coins on their possession like they might wear a silk sock. For things like rent, why have the dwarves themselves pay? The banker can just subtract some cash from their account. Wages can work the same way. Food and drink could work as a bill that gets subtracted at the end of the month.

[Vorthon]

This.... just might work...

[MrWiggles]

I don't think it will. The owner of the coin, to my knowledge is recorded per coin. So, I think it'll still suffer from stacking issues, as when the "Teller" dorf, or the banking dorfs, makes a withdraw, he'll have to break and make new stacks in order to get the coins that dorf owns.

If, the coins werent owned on a per object basis, then it could work.

[Vorthon]

I don't think it will. The owner of the coin, to my knowledge is recorded per coin. So, I think it'll still suffer from stacking issues, as when the "Teller" dorf, or the banking dorfs, makes a withdraw, he'll have to break and make new stacks in order to get the coins that dorf owns.

If, the coins werent owned on a per object basis, then it could work.

The way I understand the OP'd suggestion, coins would only be a minor part of the economy. Most transactions would basically be debit or credit.

[FearfulJesuit]

Why record the owner of a coin? Why not just treat a coin as another object, like a log, or a stone, that happens to be worn? I mean, a dollar bill doesn't have an owner, it just happens to be used by some person at any given time, and then we give it away to somebody else in return for a good or service. Granted you might need to really mess with the source code, but it'd make things a lot simpler.

And yeah, Vorthon's right. Coins aren't really very major in the way that debit and credit are. And it'd definitely fit in with the technological level of DF, because double-entry bookkeeping and banking in this way were first invented in 14th-century Italy.

[Vorthon]

Why record the owner of a coin? Why not just treat a coin as another object, like a log, or a stone, that happens to be worn? I mean, a dollar bill doesn't have an owner, it just happens to be used by some person at any given time, and then we give it away to somebody else in return for a good or service. Granted you might need to really mess with the source code, but it'd make things a lot simpler.

Also the Debit/Credit-type thing?

[MrWiggles]

Why record the owner of a coin? Why not just treat a coin as another object, like a log, or a stone, that happens to be worn? I mean, a dollar bill doesn't have an owner, it just happens to be used by some person at any given time, and then we give it away to somebody else in return for a good or service. Granted you might need to really mess with the source code, but it'd make things a lot simpler.

Its just how the object ownership works out. All the objects that can be owned by a dorf, is recorded per object, and possible the dorf has an idea of what it owns. (I'm not sure on this though. A lot of the objects a dorf owns, is things it can't use, due to lacking antics. I've never paid enough attention to clothing to tell if ownership is respected from either object to dorf or dorf to object.)

Although the main issue with coins, is not its ownership but with how its stacked, and stored. A  design issue that keeps presenting itself over and over again. You'll find it to some extend, with clothing, bolts, and medical supplies to my knowledge.

[Jake]

Its just how the object ownership works out. All the objects that can be owned by a dorf, is recorded per object, and possible the dorf has an idea of what it owns. (I'm not sure on this though. A lot of the objects a dorf owns, is things it can't use, due to lacking antics. I've never paid enough attention to clothing to tell if ownership is respected from either object to dorf or dorf to object.)

Although the main issue with coins, is not its ownership but with how its stacked, and stored. A  design issue that keeps presenting itself over and over again. You'll find it to some extend, with clothing, bolts, and medical supplies to my knowledge.

This is not insurmountable, as long as the game checks against what a dwarf owes in rent etc before transferring ownership of any coins. This would in any case cut down the amount of wasted time involved carting money to and from a dwarf's chest.

[FearfulJesuit]

It's entirely possible that the reduction of hauling jobs with the credit/debit system would make the economy workable again. Maybe a bit annoying, but I suppose the more your teller got experience the more purchases could be streamlined.

[FearfulJesuit]

This could also mean that eventually you could have loans implemented- but you'd have to do "dwarven credit scores" so that a dwarf who's 3000 dwarfbucks in debt can't take out another 10000 dwarfbucks to purchase himself a masterwork adamantine cabinet studded with platinum and menacing with spikes of clear diamond.

There's also the problem of "ownership"- who owns a dwarf's room?

[Vorthon]

This could also mean that eventually you could have loans implemented- but you'd have to do "dwarven credit scores" so that a dwarf who's 3000 dwarfbucks in debt doesn't take out another 10000 dwarfbucks to purchase himself a masterwork adamantine cabinet studded with platinum and menacing with spikes of clear diamond.

There's also the problem of "ownership"- who owns a dwarf's room?

Yay! This opens the possibility for the undercities I sometimes get the insane urge to carve from mountains actually being cities with suburbs and townhouses and everything as well as being insane megaprojects! Renting apartments, mortaging houses, all potential sources of Fun!

[irmo]

The other beauty of this is, banks have never really moved money around. They simply shift numbers on ledgers. This means that if you do not appoint a banker noble, dwarves are going to keep using a "broken" economy- they'll keep splitting coins up and create so many hauling jobs that nothing gets done.

This is how the economy always worked. Dwarves were paid in intangible fortress credit, which they'd spend on rent and items for personal use. They'd buy coins because they had a surplus of fortress credit and wanted to convert it to hard money. If you locked the coins in a vault and never let them in, they'd happily use fortress credit forever.

It doesn't fix the core problem, which is the wonky and inflexible way wages and rent are calculated.

[FearfulJesuit]

In that case, the answer is socialism: from each according to his abilities (except for going on break and stuff), and to each according to his needs. Dwarves are paid rent, food money, and a little bit extra.

Hell, we could even deal with checks instead of coins.

[TolyK]

hmmm interesting.

we could also "re-forge" the coins into stacks that are bank-owned...
to avoid stacking problems I mean...

[Vorthon]

hmmm interesting.

we could also "re-forge" the coins into stacks that are bank-owned...
to avoid stacking problems I mean...

Genius!