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[G-Flex]

Ok, for real though, a larger team could do it in less time, and two or three years isn't very long game wise. As long as the team was small enough that one person had compleate creative controll, then games like DF are more then possible.

Except in that case, DF isn't showing the game industry how to do it at all, because that's not how DF does it. There's also the fact that DF is very much a niche product. I don't see it being as profitable as something like, say, Minecraft, because it simply isn't as accessible. Niche products do not do well on the market if they need to make significant money, especially in the gaming industry. I'm not implying that being a niche product is a bad thing, just that there's a reason games these days try to appeal to virtually everyone.

[Max White]

just that there's a reason games these days try to appeal to virtually everyone.

Because the game market it too young to take itself seriously as an artform, and as such we get hundreds of the same crappy FPS with the latest shiney graphics, and when something shows up that makes a bold statment such as 'graphics are not a selling point' it is banished away as an unapprochable niche game?

[G-Flex]

Most things that make bold statements aren't very "accessible" in marketing terms, regardless of the industry you're talking about. When something explicitly goes against the expectations of most people, then most of those people whose expectations are not met won't be interested in it. It's also relevant that DF is both fairly unintuitive (although this would probably change if it were more complete) and the sort of complex management game a lot of people might not be interested in even conceptually.

Just because you like something, that doesn't mean it would ever be a super-popular title, no matter how good it is, or even how respected it is.

It would help that DF could be made on a much lower budget, but I still don't know how profitable it would be. There's also the fact that few game developers/publishers are willing to take risks these days, but again, I don't consider that a good thing, and think that could very well change to some degree if budgets were lower.

[Max White]

I dare say that between super scribblenaughts, and world of warcraft, the referance to DF are a tribute to the fact that our little secret isn't a secret, and is a rather popular game. So you can make things differently, and still be popular.

[nenjin]

I think DF has some things to teach the industry about procedural content generation and use, and the value of detail work. But I think DF, in terms of what it prioritizes, and what it turns out that we love so much, is the product of Toady's smarts/insanity. I really don't know if anyone would do it quite the way he would...or even if they should. If anyone else put this much effort into beekeeping mechanics, I'd look at them like they're crazy. With Toady it just seems kind of like a natural progression.

And boy this one went off track.

[Max White]

It did just a little, but all good conversations do!

[G-Flex]

I dare say that between super scribblenaughts, and world of warcraft, the referance to DF are a tribute to the fact that our little secret isn't a secret, and is a rather popular game. So you can make things differently, and still be popular.

No, references to DF in other games are only a tribute to the fact that the game is popular among game designers.

I think DF has some things to teach the industry about procedural content generation and use, and the value of detail work.

I agree with this. I think this kind of development is something game developers need to look into more, if only in terms of the budget saved.

[Glowcat]

The only thing DF really needs to break into mainstream markets is basic 3D or artful 2D graphics and an interface overhaul that makes accessing the game's many Fortress/Adventurer options as well as information quick and relatively painless.

With those things, even in the state it's in now DF could probably see a huge boost in public interest... which is probably why those things should wait a bit until a lot more of the gameplay meat is implemented and the wave of newcomers will be completely stunned by what DF has managed to accomplish. Dwarf Fortress is a pioneer of emergent gameplay and I don't doubt for a second that it could revolutionize the games industry if released properly.

[Africa]

I think the interface overhaul is the most important thing. There are already tilesets that function as "good 2D" graphics, at least I think. The interface would make the difficulty curve a good deal more manageable. Although the game itself is still insanely complex - the long, convoluted process to produce anything is far from self-explanatory even with a great interface.

Anyway, DF is never going to be popular among the mainstream. It's far too complex and arcane, and requires a LOT of time to be devoted before you can even grasp the basics. Most people few gaming as a relaxing diversion, not an intensive hobby, and DF's complexity and difficulty necessarily makes it the latter. And there's nothing wrong with that fact. There will probably continue to be more and more articles about it, references to it, etc., because there's a small group of people to which a game like DF appeals. But no matter how much attention it gets, most people still won't end up playing more than five or ten minutes because, basically, the "brick wall" analogy of its learning curve is quite accurate, among other things.

[Glowcat]

I think the interface overhaul is the most important thing. There are already tilesets that function as "good 2D" graphics, at least I think.

Tilesets are nice, but the bare minimum to break into decent graphics territory would be something sprite-based with animations that quickly give the player a sense of the entity's facing direction or state as well as make the world feel alive in a way that teleporting static tile images can't fulfill. In many ways a graphics upgrade would be an improved interface as it can quickly communicate certain kinds of information. e.g. Graphics with animation can instantly communicate if an entity is attacking and the weapon it is using. It could also give a lot of equipment detail from a glance without going into that entity's inventory.

Graphics can and do serve a functional purpose when properly tapped into.

[Andir]

Personal opinion here...

IP is shit.

Who cares if someone makes a blatant clone of DF, Windows, The Whopper, Big Mac, Mickey Mouse or some other crap.  If they can compete for your attention and make a better product, more power to them.

As long as he's not using Toady's code or decompiled code (and even if he is that's still a feat...) then I have no problem with competition in this arena.  There's much to be desired with DF and maybe a little competition will light some fire under people.

[Jake]

There's such a thing as placeholder content. Maybe he's holding off on putting together a load of new plants, animals etc after he's got the game to the point where it's ready for general release? Not that there's very much in the raws that Toady can claim copyright on in the first place, excepting the cavern creatures, some of the plants and maybe the languages at a stretch.

[Soadreqm]

I think the embark screen is just sad. I mean, making a clone of Dwarf Fortress? Great! The concept of a dwarven fortress simulator (or a fantasy world simulator for the ambitious) is broad enough to accommodate more than one game. But copying everything, down to the plump helmets? That's kind of lame, and veering closer to the "copyright violation" territory. I'm pretty sure that being able to pack your embark wagon with nothing but horse brains should mostly be considered a bug, and the Caravan Arc might actually do something about that. And either way, the long list of animal products you get is absolutely terrible, interface-wise. Why would anyone in their right mind copy that? I guess it could be a coy inside reference or something?

Well, I think it's not actually going to matter, since I believe this guy will give up once he realizes that it took Dr. Adams like six years of working on this thing as his day job to get where the game is now. Heh, did you notice in the video how all the dwarves move one by one? When more dig-designated rocks became exposed, everyone stopped mining to wait for another dwarf to run to from the entrance to the mine. It was so cute!

[Rose]

I think it's more along the lines of "I'm gonna make a similar game to DF, but I don't want to spend time making my own plants, etc, before the engine is finished."

[Zrk2]

That just means he's lazy. That is no excuse.