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[Leafsnail]

Frankly I can't really blame Hamas for preparing for war during the ceasefire, it's become pretty clear that Israel will find itself a reason to invade every two years.

Since israel deals with enemies on multiple borders and with population that is prone to radical islam and disorder as seen in syria, iraq, egypt, lebanon, palestine and jordan, i can't see how you can or even should expect israel to demilitarize itself.

If we make peace with hamas and give up our weapons, what will stop Hizbulla in the northern borders form invading? what will stop al qaeda from the egyptian border? what will stop ISIS from the jordanian border? hell, what will stop hamas from amassing weapons and invading? and don't tell me the UN. its the UN that allows hizbulla to enrich itself in the lebanon border and sometimes even shelter it in its facilities.

So you can see why it's unreasonable to expect a sovereign nation to be demilitarized, then?  Or do you think Palestinians should ignore history and just trust Israel not to just constantly invade them?

[Sergarr]

israel has started a preemptive war, not a preventive war.

Isn't it illegal to start wars in the modern world? 

[Sheb]

Actually, there is a difference, with preemptive being "Someone is going to launch an imminent attack and I'll strike first to disable it.", and is authorized under international law (It would be kinda weird to expect a country to stand by if another country is massing troops at the border and announcing its intention to invade). Preventive is more of a "That country is generally hostile, I'll strike it first."

Of course, the difference between the two is fuzzy as hell. In this case, I'd argue it was more preventive that preemptive, because the Israeli used a event it couldn't possibly have predicted (the murder of the teens) to engineer the escalation. It seems weird that this even would happen just as Hamas was preparing an imminent strike.

[Loud Whispers]

Of course, the difference between the two is fuzzy as hell. In this case, I'd argue it was more preventive that preemptive, because the Israeli used a event it couldn't possibly have predicted (the murder of the teens) to engineer the escalation. It seems weird that this even would happen just as Hamas was preparing an imminent strike.

It is possible Mossad knew beforehand and the Israeli government didn't tell the media because then Hamas would know Israel knows and move weapons out of the tunnels and evacuate areas about to be air striked.

[Sheb]

True, but it seems weird that the excuse they used would happen at just the right time. Also, you'd still need to explain why there was a need to bomb half of Gaza to get those tunnels.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah I think the idea of this being a pre-emptive strike is pretty much bollocks.  The settler kidnappings were used as an excuse to re-arrest hundreds of Hamas members (even though a different group claimed responsibility) which put Hamas on-guard and ready to retaliate fully, why would you do that if you were going for a surprise attack on the tunnels?

[Sheb]

Well, you could imagine doing that because engineering an escalation first make Israel look less like a naked agressor. Look at all the rethoric coming from the US about Israel "having the right to defend its citizens".

To be honest, at this point, there simply isn't any information permitting to either prove or disprove the statement that it was some kind of elaborate preemptive attack. But even if it was, the IDF is using way more force that simply needed to destroy the tunnels, it's an all-out assault on Hamas.

[burningpet]

Well, if hamas would have just let israel peacefully destroy its offensive tunnels instead of shooting barages of rockets at israeli civilians, i am pretty sure israel wouldn't have bombed parts of gaza in hopes of further preventing and stopping rockets attacks at its population. 

[Sheb]

AFAIK, the escalation started after the IDF blew up the houses of the suspects in the killing of the three teens. I might be wrong though. Burningpet, you mentioned a wiki article with a chronology of the strikes or something earlier? I searched the thread but can't find it, could you report it?

[burningpet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

[Sheb]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

Edit: That's a whole lot more rockets that I expected. 

[burningpet]

Thanks, I'll look into it.

Edit: That's a whole lot more rockets that I expected. 

That doesn't include israel attacks on gaza, so we don't know the reason for all of this rockets. some of them might have been a retaliation.

My point is that not those number of rockets, nor the three boys kidnap/murder were the reason for the escalation in gaza.

[GlyphGryph]

Israel has started targeting the last operational hospital in Gaza.

So far, they've destroyed the Emergency Care area and the maternity ward.

Shortly after the initial attacks, those still inside received phone calls saying that Israel intends to completely destroy the remainder of the hospital, and those inside should evacuate.

[smjjames]

Israel has started targeting the last operational hospital in Gaza.

So far, they've destroyed the Emergency Care area and the maternity ward.

Shortly after the initial attacks, those still inside received phone calls saying that Israel intends to completely destroy the remainder of the hospital, and those inside should evacuate.

Uh, why? Even if there are militants in there, Gaza still needs access to healthcare.

I don't even know what to think of Israel now. True they are entitled to defend themselves, but they are also trying to 'scorched earth' Gaza.

At this rate, they might as well just go and occupy Gaza if they're willing to destroy the last operational hospital there :/

[Dutchling]

Eh, Israel isn't even pretending to care more about the health of Palestinians than it does about the death of Hamas militants, so I'm not sure why that surprises you.

And Hamas is as much to blame here as Israel, as they're the ones who are using the hospitals for military purposes in the fist place.