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[Africa]

The PA agreed not to go to the ICC for Past wrongs. They move settlers in now, and they won't be breaking their word to go there.

Did they actually agree to that? And to whom did they agree?

[Kogan Loloklam]

They agreed not to go to the ICC immediately when they were trying to get votes from Europe.

I forgot exactly whom, but I want to say Germany.

I really do thing the abstains were "We'd support you, but we don't want to piss the USA off."

Because the USA is holding Israel's turned-out pocket for some odd reason.

[Sheb]

Apparently there's anti-Putin protests in Turkey, for his support of Assad. I really like how the Arab spring could help the west increase its stature in the Arab and generally developing world.

[Owlbread]

Come on guys, all this about Palestine and we still haven't really done Morsi's new shennanigans justice? I think it was a very calculated move on his part; play the hero and act as a mediator in the second gaza war; now's a good time to tighten your grip.

Apparently there's anti-Putin protests in Turkey, for his support of Assad. I really like how the Arab spring could help the west increase its stature in the Arab and generally developing world.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Assuming it doesn't turn out like Egypt, in any case. Accidentally putting Islamists into power doesn't help how the West is viewed at all.

[Sheb]

Well, Islamists may not like the West, but popularity sure is increasing among the population.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And the Islamists will crush any of that back down when they're in charge.

[Owlbread]

Well, Islamists may not like the West, but popularity sure is increasing among the population.

What makes you say that? Besides the fact that we often fund them, they don't seem to be thanking us much.

[olemars]

Assuming it doesn't turn out like Egypt, in any case. Accidentally putting Islamists into power doesn't help how the West is viewed at all.

Viewed by whom? Noone except a number of western pundits say that the west is to blame for islamist getting to power in Egypt.

What was the alternative in any case?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What was the alternative in any case?

Trying to prevent the non-Islamists in Egypt from making stupid mistakes like walking out of negotiations and getting replaced by Muslim Brotherhood appointees so they could end up with some actual power.

[Helgoland]

What was the alternative in any case?

Kill everyone.

[RedKing]

What was the alternative in any case?

Trying to prevent the non-Islamists in Egypt from making stupid mistakes like walking out of negotiations and getting replaced by Muslim Brotherhood appointees so they could end up with some actual power.

Herein lies the rub: if the Brotherhood won a democratic election, who are we to try and negate that? It was Kissinger speaking of Chile who said, "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people."

I went into international affairs as a field of study precisely because I felt that arrogant actions like the Allende coup, the Mossadegh coup, etc. were horrible policy decisions that undermined our credibility and goodwill in the world more than anything the Soviets could sling at us, and to hopefully be a part of the machinery to prevent such mistakes in the future.

Granted, I now realize that it's not so clear-cut. Sometimes realpolitik is the answer. But I think the US has a habit left over from the Cold War of thinking that "all Faustian deals are better than allowing Communism/terrorism/Islamism to potentially spread".

[Zangi]

What was the alternative in any case?

Kill everyone.

The fact that the Egyptian military has some rational actors is a testament to their... not utter devotion to the religion... also their not insanity.
Its just you have an organized and dedicated Islamic group hijacking the regime change from the unorganized masses.  They are the ones that most effectively put themselves at the forefront of the negotiating table after-all...

That is my current shifting view of it anyways.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What was the alternative in any case?

Trying to prevent the non-Islamists in Egypt from making stupid mistakes like walking out of negotiations and getting replaced by Muslim Brotherhood appointees so they could end up with some actual power.

Herein lies the rub: if the Brotherhood won a democratic election, who are we to try and negate that? It was Kissinger speaking of Chile who said, "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people."

Firstly, because the replaced representatives were also elected, but now the Muslim Brotherhood has their seats too. Secondly, democracy without the protection of a framework of law (usually a constitution) is nothing more than mob rule.

I may remind you that the Brotherhood used this opportunity to get the anti-sex trafficking and female protection clauses of the constitution removed so they could have child brides. The lines have been crossed, so I say to hell with them.

[olemars]

One thing to consider is that while the MB has enjoyed quite strong popular support, due to being the only really vocal, organized opponent against Mubarak (as well as running various community and welfare projects), they've always been in opposition.

Now that they have actual political power they might discover that it's not so simple. They're already having internal issues, rifts with their salafi "allies", popular support is dropping, even huge protests against the MB and Morsi.