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[Puzzlemaker]

best daily show clip I've seen in a long time

That is golden.

[GlyphGryph]

So, when the shoes are on the other foot... both parties act exactly the same, with the classic exception that democrats are more spineless and republicans are more willing to lie openly.

Is there any particular reason why Obama DIDN'T put this before congress, like, weeks ago? As a measure of "If the UN authorizes it, can we go?"

[Alexhans]

best daily show clip I've seen in a long time

Truely exellent, yet in the case of Lybia there is the whole "obviously insane thing"

Which is why what the guy himself said before does not matter?

The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

[RedKing]

So, when the shoes are on the other foot... both parties act exactly the same, with the classic exception that democrats are more spineless and republicans are more willing to lie openly.

Is there any particular reason why Obama DIDN'T put this before congress, like, weeks ago? As a measure of "If the UN authorizes it, can we go?"

FWIW, I think it's because he really didn't want to go. But when he saw France and the UK lining up to take action, and then the UN did authorize it, he had to play catch-up else we'd be left looking impotent and uncaring by not participating.

It kills me that for the last couple of weeks, the GOP has been ragging on him (and somewhat rightly so) for sitting on his hands. And now, when he actually does take action, they're labelling him "The Imperial President" and whining about the war costs and the perils of interventionism. And really, ANY Republican lecturing about interventionism should be taken around behind the woodshed to receive an almighty f*cking beatdown.

[PTTG??]

I'll get the stick.

[olemars]

best daily show clip I've seen in a long time

That is golden.

I'm blessed with absolutely no american news channels on my cable. Who is John Oliver impersonating with the gestures and red shirt?

[GlyphGryph]

But he's rushed into the conflict BECAUSE he spent so much time sitting on his hands instead of putting the possibility before congress weeks ago!

With all the democrats I know rushing to defend him, the Republicans are the only ones I can rely on to point out the problems! Oh god! *tears out eyes*

Seriously, though, more of the same shit Bush did. Presidents shouldn't just be allowed to ignore the law, and this is yet another nail in the coffin of his Presidency as far as I'm concerned.

[RedKing]

Meanwhile, in Yemen....things are looking more and more set of a showdown. President Saleh has offered to resign after elections next year, but the opposition rejects that.

The Army is increasingly backing the opposition while the "Republican Guards" units personally loyal to the President are, unsurprisingly, backing the President. There's already been a couple of skirmishes between the two sets of units, with one dead on each side.

This looks more like Egypt and Tunisia than Libya, though. Public opposition is very strong, and Saleh has already lost the military's support, as well as a fair number of his diplomatic corps. And unlike Libya, the opposition is centered in the capital instead of hundreds of km away.

[olemars]

Also helps that Saleh, while certainly an odd chap, isn't totally rearranged in the head like his Libyan counterpart.

[PTTG??]

There's so many nails on Obama's Presidency's Coffin that it looks like a porcupine already.

Let's consider the options available as of a few days ago;

1: Let thousands or tens of thousands of Libyans, a substantial group of whom are begging for aid, get slaughtered by a dictator, while the world blames us for not helping. How could we have such a double standard, helping Iraq but not Libya?

2: Go it alone into Libya, get stuck in a quagmire, and end up fighting four occupational wars. While the world blames us for imperializing all over the place just like Hitler always wanted to do; those Americans, how dare they not learn from Iraq?

3: Get international permission and then act immediately on an (at least initially) limited basis, making it clear we aren't there to stay, and plan to leave ASAP. The World says Meh, the Europeans say At least they asked this time, and we're helping, China and Russia are Grumpy and the Republicans Threaten to impeach the president, just like they do every night.

Look, I don't like the expense. I don't like the risks to US soldiers. I don't like the glorification of war. But at the moment, and so long as we keep even remotely close to the plan, this "intervention" will probably be the closest to a positive outcome we can get out of this. It would have been better if we'd started sooner, but at that time, it looked like the rebels could win on their own.

TL;DR:
Damned if you do, Damned if you don't, we chose neither and just got Darned.

[RedKing]

best daily show clip I've seen in a long time

That is golden.

I'm blessed with absolutely no american news channels on my cable. Who is John Oliver impersonating with the gestures and red shirt?

No one in particular, but the style of delivery is very much the "infomercial", where an energetic pitchman tries to sell you a crappy product that you really don't need, accompanied by the sidekick (Jon) who expresses faux scepticism, only to be won over by the pitch and wind up raving about the product.

[GlyphGryph]

Option 4: Do option 3, except legally. Ask congress for permission to wage war, but do not act unless the UN authorizes it.

Anyways

President Saleh has offered to resign after elections next year, but the opposition rejects that.

Not surprising, considering he's made the same offer before.

[Alexhans]

Guys... Not everything is a Dem vs Rep issue for fucks sakes...

If you support a political party it doesn't mean you need to defend that party or their people when you don't agree with what they're doing.  Specially if it's something you criticized on others.

Obama took a crap on his own alleged views.  There's no excuse for that.  And the worst part is that it legitimizes any future breach of this idea of non oversight by congress.  It will work for all presidents.  You can no longer try to pin it on someone else.

And there I was actually thinking USA would involve themselves as little as possible when the UN decided the no fly zone.  It seems I am, still, extremely naive.

[RedKing]

Guys... Not everything is a Dem vs Rep issue for fucks sakes...

If you support a political party it doesn't mean you need to defend that party or their people when you don't agree with what they're doing.  Specially if it's something you criticized on others.

Obama took a crap on his own alleged views.  There's no excuse for that.  And the worst part is that it legitimizes any future breach of this idea of non oversight by congress.  It will work for all presidents.  You can no longer try to pin it on someone else.

And there I was actually thinking USA would involve themselves as little as possible when the UN decided the no fly zone.  It seems I am, still, extremely naive.

I absolutely agree that Obama is doing differently than he said he would. I stop at calling it full-blown hypocrisy, because things aren't as simple when you're in the driver's seat as it might have seemed as a candidate.

But it is hypocrisy of the rankest order for Republicans to trot out all these arguments now, after 9 years of being on the opposite end of them. And this isn't a sorrowful "Learn from our mistakes" kind of change-of-heart, it's the "pay no attention to the fact that we've pulled a 180 so hard it's giving up collective whiplash", "We've ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia and ALWAYS been friends with Eurasia" kind.

And I will defend intervention in this case, in that you had an immediate threat of massive loss of life. If Qaddafi took Benghazi, don't think for a second that he wouldn't have slaughtered tens of thousands or more in retaliation. This is the kind of shit that the UN Security Council is supposed to intervene in.

And don't worry about setting a precedent. We've been engaging in undeclared military actions since the Korean War. Hell, the entire first Gulf War went unapproved by Congress and was never a declared war.

[PTTG??]

Let me state for the record that I'm not a Democrat and don't plan to vote for them.