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[Nikov]

What is happening in Libya definately qualifies as a war.

Also Peace Prize winners have been more bloodthirsty in the past. Look at ol' Yasser Arafat.

[ChairmanPoo]

The nobel peace prize is a joke. Did you know that at one point HITLER was nominated for it?

[Zrk2]

Yeah Obama just went "peace, love, change and all that goodstuff, mmkay?" and got a Peace Prize for doing jack shit.

I wonder what crawled into Germany's pants. They're so worried about getting pulled into any kind of action related to Libya that they're recalling all german military vessels and air crew they have in the mediterranean.

I know they've got some... bad memories about Libya but this is almost neurotic.

Instead it seems like bastion of neutrality, Sweden, is ready to contribute a squadron of JAS Gripen.

Instead it seems like bastion of neutrality, Sweden, is ready to contribute a squadron of JAS Gripen.

Spoiler: My Reaction (click to show/hide)

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HOLY SHIT!

Really? That is suprising.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Eh, I won't be suprised untill Switzerland contributes troops. That would be surreal.

[ed boy]

It's not surprising that germany doesn't want to get involved. It was in a newspaper recently that britain's involvement in the no-fly zone costs us £200 million per day ($376 million USD).

[nenjin]

Takes a lot of jet fuel to constantly patrol skies under which you have no air bases.

[Nilik]

I think anyone outright opposing the no-fly-zone is either not looking at the bigger picture, or is willfully ignorant and can only process the situation as "We're shooting missiles at things, shooting missiles is bad, therefore this is bad". Or "This is a war in a desert country with Muslims, therefore this is Iraq and Iraq was bad."

This whole situation is a great big clusterfuck, but frankly it still looks better than the alternative if we hadn't intervened.

[Aqizzar]

The problem is, there's no real plan, or at least an explained plan, of what is supposed to happen.  Okay, so NATO air power (and let's not kid ourselves about whose war this is - Qatar promised to eventually send six planes) can keep Qaddafi's jets on the ground and destroy his 50 year old AA guns with $1.2million cruise missiles.  "Troops on the ground" is a sticky fiction, since the US already put an air-force recovery team down to pick up some ejected pilots, but the one thing Obama has absolutely promised is to not deploy offensive ground forces.

What's the end state?  What is the actual goal of this deployment?  Is it to keep the Rebels safe from Qaddafi's military without actually win their civil war for them?  Is it to referee a war that the Western powers all have a very clear picked-winner in?  Is it to knock off Qaddafi himself?  I know it's only been five days, but somebody had better come up with an idea of what the West is actually hoping for here.

[Ampersand]

If they had waited until, say, today to begin the intervention, it would already be over. There was a clear and present urgency, and taking time for the NATO alliance to sit down and plan out their objectives in the days after the UN resolution would have only meant giving Khadaffi his victory.

[Puzzlemaker]

Yeah, it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't moment.

Personally I am glad we went in... but I am sad that this may turn into a prolonged conflict.

[Phmcw]

I must say I'm surprised how easily everyone is buying the civilian death toll given by the Lybyan regime, and I can't really understand why no one is compearing the 40 death reported to the about 10 000 casualties so far.
The second pilot said he was surronder by curious locals that offered him juice and thanked him for the raids.

Edit: no, I'm confused now, why does a lot of media oulet act as if Obama was rooting for this war when he acually delayed it as long as he could?
And he's obvously trying to get out of there as soon as possible?

[GlyphGryph]

Listening to the news gives me whiplash. I can't do it anymore.

[Sowelu]

American media is worthless.  The real question is why you even bother listening to it.

No, I'm serious.  Speaking as an American, I get my news from the BBC or Al Jaz or ANYWHERE that's not mainstream American media.  I don't trust one single word that comes out of my own country's media.  I guess I kind of feel like I'm in China that way, except that Fox News won't come and disappear me.

[Jackrabbit]

Listening to the news gives me whiplash. I can't do it anymore.

I love that mental image.

[RedKing]

I wonder what crawled into Germany's pants. They're so worried about getting pulled into any kind of action related to Libya that they're recalling all german military vessels and air crew they have in the mediterranean.

I know they've got some... bad memories about Libya but this is almost neurotic.

Instead it seems like bastion of neutrality, Sweden, is ready to contribute a squadron of JAS Gripen.

People forget that up until about 150 years ago, Sweden was one of the most aggressive countries in Europe. They're descended from Vikings, for God's sake! 


And yes, the general cognitive dissonance surrounding this whole operation is getting tiresome. It's also disheartening to see that the rebel forces aren't making much headway, even after Qaddafi's troops have been denied air support. I suppose it's time to expand the mission from just denial of airspace to striking at logistics and supply as well. Don't think we should get into the business of direct CAS against tanks and artillery (at that point it really is a war), but maybe we can cut their fuel supplies?