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[Jack A T]

What is that list exactly? (Preferably with a sentence or so for each why)

People I suspect?  Well, I still suspect Janus, for the reasons I gave yesterday.  Org...I have no idea what he's trying to say, so I really don't know about him.  He makes little sense!  Is he always like this?  Zathras's defense of me felt a bit contrived at times, but I might just be paranoid.

And Dariush: I thought about including him in the list in the first place, but I dismissed my feelings as mostly just my reaction to anger.  However, the confusion about my question pushed him up to being on my list.  My weakest FoS, but still notable.

[JanusTwoface]

You seem to be making an unusually large deal about distancing yourself from Dariush.  Why is that?

Regarding Org, he is usually just like this. Rarely he's better and sometimes he's even worse. He's been particularly off the last few games.

Regarding Zathras, you probably are just paranoid.

[NativeForeigner]

What is that list exactly? (Preferably with a sentence or so for each why)

The list of who's in the game, actually. Not a personal list.

[JanusTwoface]

That was a question for Jack A T, referring to the second paragraph of the post right before it. In general, I'll quote what I'm responding to unless it's a short post just before.

Understandable mistake though, because both were referring to lists.

While you're here though, why aren't you voting?

[Zathras]

Zathras:

Riddle me this, all of you voting me: Are you confident enough that I'm scum that you'd risk killing one of the most active players on Day 1?

Oh, are you playing the "if you lynch me you'll regret it!" card? Yeah, that's another nail in your coffin.

This is a valid attack.  However, you ignore MBP when he does the exact same thing:

Will be so funny to see me lynched and then see you squirm that you lost a usefull role to your own damn lack of reading.

Please explain the disparity here.

Essentially, different players are held to different standards based on their skills. You don't lynch players for being bad, you lynch them for being scum. MBP saying that, or mixing up facts, of failing to construct a coherent sentence is much less of a scumtell than Janus doing the same. Because Janus knows better, while MBP doesn't.

This is, in essence, the reason I voted Janus yesterday; they did the same things, but in MBP it was the emotional reaction of an unskilled player, while in Janus it seemed to be a skilled player building a vacuous case out of false or flimsy arguments, emotional baiting, and falling into a massive self-defensive stance when attacked; some of his choices of words or arguments subtly betrayed his scummy intentions. But with a skilled player, subtleties are all you are likely going to get. They shouldn't be dismissed.

Case in point:

Janus:  Why did you need to point out you weren't scum in your reply to Jack A T?  Hiding something?

The point wasn't that I'm not scum; the point was that I know my own alignment. I'm only making an educated guess at most everyone else's.

At most? Who else's alignments do you know? Funny how we all know our own alignment, but don't feel the need to point that out... You do seem to wish some validation. Being overtly "us town" is one of the scumtells more experienced players tend to fall into. "Hey, we're all town here, right? no need to look for scum amongst us townies; let's look at that scummy guy over there!" Janus, you are scum.

While it does seem Dariush is taking it a little far, you can never be certain it was a town v town fight. What makes you so certain Janus is town?

a) Janus doesn't look scummy in general.  He seems to be doing stuff.
b) Unless their name is webadict, scum doesn't usually like to draw massive attention to themselves on day one.  Why start a huge fight and put yourself at risk when you can coax in the shadows?
c) The bandwagon on him yesterday, and the suggestion that we should lynch MBP and Janus from various quarters, seems to imply to me that he doesn't have scumbuddies backing him up.  Not that I expect them to come out and directly defend him - generally, it's more subtle than that (pushing attention elsewhere, undermining his attackers etc).

Interesting how you put it. I'd agree with a), but a good scum would do that too to seem town; I partly agree with b) but think that Janus didn't expect he'd take as much of the spotlight as he ended up doing... still, good point; regarding c), he did have someone backing him up, defending him and attacking his attacker: Jim. A bit too unsubtle for Jim for me to call it a scumbuddy thing for sure, but possible.



Also scummy:

Org:

If , somehow, I can be scum with two posts, that a bunch of bullshit. [...] Also, meta. Silent Org is scum Org MY ASS. You guys say I am unreadable, but the fuck. I mean, its pretty laughable. One, usually my scum game involves me actually playing and not lurking.

No. You absolutely can be scum with zero posts, you totally can and do lurk your way to victory as scum (SA-I is but one example),  and you seem scummy by default because of your asinine playstyle which I can't read. You have failed to be useful as town, and until you do that I will consider you a potential scum. Whether I vote to hang you first or not will depend on how scummy others are in comparison.

Dariush: I can't really find much more in his posts but bile and insults. I think he and Jim form a perfect couple; like Dariush wants to be like him when he grows up or something. I think his jumpiness and anger are scummy, but not as much as those I point above.

Archangel:

I'll play this game to the best of my ability, because I can play well, and I want to prove it.

Is this the best of your ability? It's ten days later and you have five posts, with exactly zero content. You are coming dangerously close to policy-lynch levels of uselessness.



On the rest:
- IronyOwl, Ottofar, Mr. Person: Neutral-to-lightly-scum read. Nothing too notable yet.
- Toaster, Jack, Leaf, NativeForeigner: Seem reasonably townie so far. Am I missing something?

A handful of questions:

Leafsnail: do you consider self-preservation a scumtell? If someone said "I don't want to be lynched D1" and went entirely into an over-the-top defense, would you consider them scummy? What do you think of Native, Jack and Toaster?

IronyOwl: Please give me your impressions of Toaster, Jim and Mr. Person so far. Do you agree with Leaf that the JTF/MBP thing D1 was a townie vs. townie thing, or is there more to it?

Jim:

And where was I, oh, right. Zathras. For being inconsistent. I don't really have any more than what I did when the day ended.

Uh? Where was I inconsistent? Since I wasn't, then you don't really have anything, do you? Also tell me if you've got a little voice in the back of your mind telling you that you might be wrong, but you're keeping your vote on me. Do you really think the chance of me being scum is great enough to ignore the little voice in the back of your head? Or there is no voice and you are certain I'm scum?

Also Jim, your read on Org, Toaster and Leaf would be appreciated.

[NativeForeigner]

That was a question for Jack A T, referring to the second paragraph of the post right before it. In general, I'll quote what I'm responding to unless it's a short post just before.

Understandable mistake though, because both were referring to lists.

While you're here though, why aren't you voting?

My mistake.

I'm not voting because I'm still reviewing everything and trying to form an opinion on everybody. I've been a tad distracted from this game lately.

[JanusTwoface]

This is, in essence, the reason I voted Janus yesterday; they did the same things, but in MBP it was the emotional reaction of an unskilled player, while in Janus it seemed to be a skilled player building a vacuous case out of false or flimsy arguments, emotional baiting, and falling into a massive self-defensive stance when attacked; some of his choices of words or arguments subtly betrayed his scummy intentions. But with a skilled player, subtleties are all you are likely going to get. They shouldn't be dismissed.

Vacuous case: He was overreacting and not scumhunting. Not vacuous.
Emotional baiting: That's called scumhunting. Pushing someone to see how they react.
Self-defense: I don't want to get lynched for stupid crap. Meh.

At most? Who else's alignments do you know? Funny how we all know our own alignment, but don't feel the need to point that out... You do seem to wish some validation. Being overtly "us town" is one of the scumtells more experienced players tend to fall into. "Hey, we're all town here, right? no need to look for scum amongst us townies; let's look at that scummy guy over there!" Janus, you are scum.

And you're town. Which is how I know you're tunneling me as opposed to trying for a mislynch.

Bah humbug not thinking before I made the comment about knowing more than my own alignment and for PMs not being allowed in Supernatural. Probably signed my own death warrent.

I'm not voting because I'm still reviewing everything and trying to form an opinion on everybody. I've been a tad distracted from this game lately.

The day ends in 17 hours. Try to post that review a decent bit before the day ends so we can read it.

[NativeForeigner]

I'm not voting because I'm still reviewing everything and trying to form an opinion on everybody. I've been a tad distracted from this game lately.

The day ends in 17 hours. Try to post that review a decent bit before the day ends so we can read it.

Will do, but I'd appreciate an extension and vote count.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Dariush: Leafsnail, Ottofar, Toaster
JanusTwoface: Zathras
Org: JanusTwoface
Toaster: Dariush
Zathras: Jim Groovester


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. There is 1 vote to Extend. 4 votes total needed to extend the day by 24 hours.

[Zathras]

I support the motion to extend.

[Zathras]

And now, a Public Service Announcement:

LurkerTracker^®
The Bureau of Incomplete Statistics reports that one out of three.

Archangel has 5 posts; the last 113 hours ago. Red text: Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
Dariush has 6 posts; the last 13 hours ago. Red text: Toaster Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6]
Jack A T has 33 posts; the last 2 hours ago. Red text: Janus Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33]
JanusTwoface has 41 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41]
Jim Groovester has 17 posts; the last 5 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]
Leafsnail has 12 posts; the last 8 hours ago. Red text: Dariush Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Mr.Person has 7 posts; the last 28 hours ago. Red text: Unvote, vote MysteriousBluePuppet Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
NativeForeigner has 10 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: MBP Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
Org has 7 posts; the last 28 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
Ottofar has 8 posts; the last 13 hours ago. Red text: Dariush Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Toaster has 19 posts; the last 2 hours ago. Red text: Dariush Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19]
Zathras has 15 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Janus Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

Mysteriousbluepuppet: dead, town Dreamwalker has 17 posts; the last 107 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]

Moderator has 12 posts; the last 7 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Nonplayer has 1 posts; the last 106 hours ago. Posts: [1]
The Morgue: Mysteriousbluepuppet: dead, town Dreamwalker.

Moderator: please prod Archangel. They haven't posted in over 36 hours."We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." -- Carl Sagan
      True, and good advice for Mafia as well.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim:

And where was I, oh, right. Zathras. For being inconsistent. I don't really have any more than what I did when the day ended.

Uh? Where was I inconsistent? Since I wasn't, then you don't really have anything, do you? Also tell me if you've got a little voice in the back of your mind telling you that you might be wrong, but you're keeping your vote on me. Do you really think the chance of me being scum is great enough to ignore the little voice in the back of your head? Or there is no voice and you are certain I'm scum?

By the time the day rolled around I had completely forgotten what it was that I voted you for except that I had. So I had to refresh myself with the arguments I made.

Anyways, you are scum because of the crap you tried to pin JTF for yesterday. Everything I brought up in this post. Your responses told me that you were being unnecessarily unforgiving of JTF just to see him lynched.

Stuff like this:

a) Janus doesn't look scummy in general.  He seems to be doing stuff.
b) Unless their name is webadict, scum doesn't usually like to draw massive attention to themselves on day one.  Why start a huge fight and put yourself at risk when you can coax in the shadows?
c) The bandwagon on him yesterday, and the suggestion that we should lynch MBP and Janus from various quarters, seems to imply to me that he doesn't have scumbuddies backing him up.  Not that I expect them to come out and directly defend him - generally, it's more subtle than that (pushing attention elsewhere, undermining his attackers etc).

Interesting how you put it. I'd agree with a), but a good scum would do that too to seem town; I partly agree with b) but think that Janus didn't expect he'd take as much of the spotlight as he ended up doing... still, good point; regarding c), he did have someone backing him up, defending him and attacking his attacker: Jim. A bit too unsubtle for Jim for me to call it a scumbuddy thing for sure, but possible.

Particularly your a). If you're willing to see good town play as scummy cover then you are either tunneling like a Chunnel drill team or you're scum trying to lynch JTF for anything you can grasp at.

Also about the voice: I don't hear it anymore. I seriously don't worry about whether or not I could be wrong. Completely pointless. I either lynch my target or they do things to prove me wrong. In any case, I move on.

Nice try getting me to doubt myself, by even throwing myself back at me. What is this? Some cute new thing you're trying? It makes me suspicious any time I get myself thrown back at me, and you're no exception.

Also Jim, your read on Org, Toaster and Leaf would be appreciated.

Org is being Org. He's posted game content at least once, so, I guess it's a slight improvement over normal? I don't really have any strong thoughts towards him.

Toaster is being Toaster, in that he's completely unreadable. I don't have any compelling reason to suspect him. If I wanted to I could look for one, but it wouldn't be especially useful for me to do that.

Leafsnail reads town to me.

[Jack A T]

Extend.

You seem to be making an unusually large deal about distancing yourself from Dariush.  Why is that?

Regarding Org, he is usually just like this. Rarely he's better and sometimes he's even worse. He's been particularly off the last few games.

Regarding Zathras, you probably are just paranoid.

Dariush bit: Because he is my weakest FoS.  I don't trust the guy, but I'm not at the stage where I'm going to try to get him lynched.

Org bit: ...wow.  Just...wow.

[NativeForeigner]

Thank you, mod.

My quick thoughts on those being voted:

Dariush is being somewhat of an idiot as usual, but that's not far from the norm for him. However, the way he's playing this game doesn't quite match up with how he's played as scum in previous games. However, that doesn't mean he's town, either.

JTF could be scum that skillfully got us to mislynch D1 almost scathe-free. But that's mostly just WIFOM.

Org is Org, but should not be disregarded.

Toaster is notoriously difficult to read.

Zathras is also a little difficult to read as he hasn't posted much D2, but he's being more helpful than I am.

Archangel needs to get his ass in here and actually do something. Or get modkilled. I'd be okay with either, but I would prefer him doing something useful.

[Zathras]

My quick thoughts on those being voted:

Do you have thoughts about IronyOwl, Ottofar or Leafsnail? I'd also like your opinion of Jim, after you read my next post.