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[Max White]

Wait, are you guys telling me the 'sleep with a gun under the pillow' isn't just a movie thing? People sleep next to loaded fire arms?

The hell guys? Law down here says that if you have a gun in your house, it needs to be in a safe, disassembled into as many parts as you can get it into. If you want ammo with that, it needs to be in a seperate locked safe. To go from 'safe' to 'ready to fire' would require about 5 minutes work. And I dare say it works.

[Lord Shonus]

Besides the usual problems with that sort of chart (namely unsourced/undated (I'd guess pre-1991 based on the national outlines) data) the fact a few of the deepest blue countries have had draconian firearms bans for decades proves the opposite.

[Max White]

Because countrys like mexico and South Africa are known for their abilty to enforce such laws.
The US of A isn;t in third world standards, and should be able to enfore it's laws.

Here is the most recent I could find in a blink, and it still says you guys are more blood thirsty then we are. Although say what you will about Japan, they don't like killing.

[Sir Finkus]

I do keep a gun at my bedside table when I sleep

And that's exactly what I'm speaking about. You have no reason to believe you may get murdered but you keep a gun near your bed while you sleep as an insurance.
In Belgium you would be called paranoid. In America it's ok, apparently.
And on the moral aspect, you're getting ready to kill. Not to defend yourself, to kill whoever attack you. There is a distinction.
The fact that this distinction is lacking in America, that the gun ownership is high, that guns aren't required to be stored in a safe... all that can only make gun-crime flourish whenever crime is high (or even medium).

I have no reason to believe my house will burn down, but I have a fire extinguisher just in case a fire starts.  Is this also paranoid? 
You say that I'm "getting ready to kill" instead of defending myself, but can you name a way to defend oneself that is equally or more effective than a firearm?  I also don't see how keeping my gun on the table is going to "make gun-crime flourish".  I'm not, and will never be a criminal and that isn't going to change no matter where I keep my pistol.

[Max White]

I have no reason to believe my house will burn down, but I have a fire extinguisher just in case a fire starts.  Is this also paranoid? 
You say that I'm "getting ready to kill" instead of defending myself, but can you name a way to defend oneself that is equally or more effective than a firearm?  I also don't see how keeping my gun on the table is going to "make gun-crime flourish".  I'm not, and will never be a criminal and that isn't going to change no matter where I keep my pistol.

You have a fire extinguisher? I don't. I have a phone, both on the wall and in my pocket, and if there was a fire large enough to be on the same statistical scale as a dangerouse intruder, I would call the fire brigade.
You guys do have police, right? Use them!

[Lord Shonus]

You would rather allow your kitchen to be destroyed while you wait for the fire department than keep an extinguisher to put out a grease fire? To each his own, I guess.


I was referring to (what appears to be) the Soviet Union, which was ruthlessly effective at enforcing the law. The point is that anyone who bases crime rates on a single factor (ANY single factor) has a horribly flawed argument even IF the data he's using has not been falsified, laundered, misreported, or is otherwise altered, which I cannot judge with this data because I don't know the sources used to make that chart.

[Sir Finkus]

I have no reason to believe my house will burn down, but I have a fire extinguisher just in case a fire starts.  Is this also paranoid? 
You say that I'm "getting ready to kill" instead of defending myself, but can you name a way to defend oneself that is equally or more effective than a firearm?  I also don't see how keeping my gun on the table is going to "make gun-crime flourish".  I'm not, and will never be a criminal and that isn't going to change no matter where I keep my pistol.

You have a fire extinguisher? I don't. I have a phone, both on the wall and in my pocket, and if there was a fire large enough to be on the same statistical scale as a dangerouse intruder, I would call the fire brigade.
You guys do have police, right? Use them!

I live in a rural area, so it would probably take at least 10 minutes for the police to arrive.  A LOT can happen in 10 minutes.  As for fire extinguishers, you should consider picking one up.  At the very least it could save you some money on your insurance.

[Max White]

Grease fires are easy, turn the heat off and leave them alone. Because they burn fumes rather then liquids, if you remove the heat source then the rate of evaporation will drop (Although a little, due to combustion from fumes giving off heat) and the fire will get a little smaller, and most oftern die out before anything else catches. Although the point is a good one, and I realy should get a fire blanket.

I wonder what has a higher rate, grease fires catch on and burn down houses, or intruders that would have run for it as soon as you turn on a light get shot?

[Sir Finkus]

Grease fires are easy, turn the heat off and leave them alone. Because they burn fumes rather then liquids, if you remove the heat source then the rate of evaporation will drop (Although a little, due to combustion from fumes giving off heat) and the fire will get a little smaller, and most oftern die out before anything else catches. Although the point is a good one, and I realy should get a fire blanket.

I wonder what has a higher rate, grease fires catch on and burn down houses, or intruders that would have run for it as soon as you turn on a light get shot?

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the gun would be my first line of defense, nothing could be further from the truth.  The gun is an absolute last resort.

[Nikov]

Although say what you will about Japan, they don't like killing.

Your suicide rate is 35 per 100,000 and your murder rate is 0.44 per 100,000 for a net of 35.44.
Our suicide rate is 17.7 per 100,000 and our murder rate is 5.6 per 100,000 for a net of 23.3.

You seem to like killing more than we do.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sauce: 2007 Figures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

[Max White]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the gun would be my first line of defense, nothing could be further from the truth.  The gun is an absolute last resort.

Oh, what else would you do?
There is a stranger in your house, you do not know if they are armed, and your in your bed with a loaded fire arm next to you. What measures do you take to make sure you are safe, if fire at will is a last priorty?

My first action is to pull the covers over my head and wait untill they go away, then when I hear the door close I call the police, but of corse living in a City they have little chance of getting away with such quick responce time from the police, so in your situation, what is your protocal?

Your suicide rate is 35 per 100,000 and your murder rate is 0.44 per 100,000 for a net of 35.44.
Our suicide rate is 17.7 per 100,000 and our murder rate is 5.6 per 100,000 for a net of 23.3.

You seem to like killing more than we do.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sauce: 2007 Figures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

It is rather sad that you count suicide rate into gun crimes. Depression has become a rather big deal down here in Australia, with a large percent of our population living in isloated farm lands they don't have social contant with a lot of people, and seven years of bad farming seasons has left a lot of these farms in massive debt, is it any wonder there suicide rate is so high?
And do you beleive that owning a gun will alter the rate of suicide?

[Earthquake Damage]

I think half his point is that the overall murder rate has as little relation to gun legality/ownership as the overall suicide rate.

[Phmcw]

This have little to do with the matter at hand, and killing oneself is not the same as killing someone else.

The gun is an absolute last resort.

That's what everyone keep singing.

Shonus : you really don't see the difference? I'll give you a hint : If you mistake a weird light for a fire, no harm will be done, if you feel betrayed by your fireplace and drown the flame in carbonic snow in a fit of rage, no harm will be done. In case of misuse you are not likely to get hurt, and if someone steal it, the worst that can happen is that he dispose of fires illegally.
You should be able to figure out the rest by yourself.

[Sergius]

Well, if someone who wants to kill himself has access to a gun, the moment he picks up the gun he'll run terrified, like the burglars, and fail to kill himself AMIRITE?

[Max White]

This have little to do with the matter at hand, and killing oneself is not the same as killing someone else.

The gun is an absolute last resort.

That's what everyone keep singing.

Shonus : you really don't see the difference? I'll give you a hint : If you mistake a weird light for a fire, no harm will be done, if you feel betrayed by your fireplace and drown the flame in carbonic snow in a fit of rage, no harm will be done. In case of misuse you are not likely to get hurt, and if someone steal it, the worst that can happen is that he dispose of fires illegally.
You should be able to figure out the rest by yourself.

Well I was going under the assumption that we all valued human life about the same, if not less, then a chemical reation...

Unless said reaction is the haber process, freeking love that one.

Well, if someone who wants to kill himself has access to a gun, the moment he picks up the gun he'll run terrified, like the burglars, and fail to kill himself AMIRITE?

Your saracasem achives little.