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[Virtz]

There is no better medieval combat game in existence.

That's because it's the only medieval combat game in existence.

It ain't, though. Medieval combat includes fantasy games where people fight other people with medieval weaponry. There are some of those and I don't recall any of them doing better.

Or better yet, point towards a game with a supposedly better control system.

Define "better". Does it mean "allows for more complex moves"? In that case, Die by the Sword. Does it mean "captures the essential role of positioning, distance, and timing in combat"? In that case, Severance: Blade of Darkness. Does it mean "easier to control"? In that case, pretty much any other combat game ever made.

How about overall? M&B allows for relatively freeform moves, varied weaponry and player skill reliance without being hard to learn. I've shown this game to a person with little experience with action games (strategy/sim snob) and he got to a point where he never used autoblock. There's nothing difficult about the control scheme.

And although my memory is rather sketchy, I seem to recall Severance having one of the clunkiest control schemes I've seen. Might be remembering it wrong. Would have to try the demo or something.

Just note that Dynasty Warriors' brawler style or Assassin's Creed's "press button and cool shit happens" style are far worse alternatives for a game where all units are supposed to be treated equally by game mechanics.

That's true, but I don't see why you even bring that up, given that in neither of those are all units supposed to be treated equally.

They're examples of existing games with medieval(-like) combat. And they have fundamentally different control schemes compared to M&B.

[Cheese]

It seems that increased background radiation from the Fukishima nuclear power plant meltdowns has given me the power of internet-invisibility! Now, do I use this ability to torment people with invisible 2048x2048 meme images or to hack an evil government's website?

[Tellemurius]

No stop it, non of that please.

[Cheese]

BUAHAHAHA!!!

Anyways, you guys seriously need to let this whole ego-battle over M&B and Severance go.

[Lysabild]

It seems that increased background radiation from the Fukishima nuclear power plant meltdowns has given me the power of internet-invisibility! Now, do I use this ability to torment people with invisible 2048x2048 meme images or to hack an evil government's website?

How does that in any way fit in here?

BUAHAHAHA!!!

Anyways, you guys seriously need to let this whole ego-battle over M&B and Severance go.

Ego battles? It's mostly about what we'd prefer in ES:V when it comes to combat, related games a mentioned.

[PTTG??]

Do you think they're serious about the whole lumberjacking/mining/smithing/farming part of the game that was mentioned a while ago?

[Lysabild]

Do you think they're serious about the whole lumberjacking/mining/smithing/farming part of the game that was mentioned a while ago?

omfg I hope so.

[Shadowlord]

Welcome to THE ELDER SCROLLS V: BRITANNIA! Hmm. I bet that you get a quest to make dragonscale armor at some point.

[Sordid]

It ain't, though. Medieval combat includes fantasy games where people fight other people with medieval weaponry. There are some of those and I don't recall any of them doing better.

I don't think other games are really comparable to M&B. M&B is purely medieval combat, in other games you tend to also have magic and stealth (or free running in the case of Asscreed) and actual combat itself is only a small part of the gameplay. Saying that other games don't have as good combat as M&B is like saying that GTA doesn't have as good car physics simulation as Live for Speed. Obviously it doesn't, because it's not the primary focus of the game. The only other games that I know that focus primarily on realistically simulating combat are DbtS and Severance, and we've discussed those already.

How about overall? M&B allows for relatively freeform moves, varied weaponry and player skill reliance without being hard to learn. I've shown this game to a person with little experience with action games (strategy/sim snob) and he got to a point where he never used autoblock. There's nothing difficult about the control scheme.

Did you set the game speed on fast and AI on good as well?
I also don't really agree with the varied weaponry thing either. All the weapons function in completely identical ways in terms of controls, the only real difference is that with some weapons certain attack directions are disabled. Now something like a mace or an axe that has all the weight concentrated in the head is used in a fundamentally different way than an evenly balanced sword. In M&B, that difference doesn't exist, they both control and feel exactly the same. You applaud that, I call it a flaw.

And although my memory is rather sketchy, I seem to recall Severance having one of the clunkiest control schemes I've seen. Might be remembering it wrong. Would have to try the demo or something.

The movement outside of combat is very clunky, because for some reason the devs thought it would be a good idea to disable strafing and the running animations are shit. But once you lock onto an enemy, it becomes much better and you can move freely. It may seem clunky, you can't for example cancel an attack the way you can in M&B - once you initiate it, your character is going to follow through with it. And if your enemy blocks your attack, you become staggered and lose control of the character for a moment. But I think that's entirely on purpose, like I said, timing is everything in that game. Precisely because you can't just change your mind in the middle of an attack, you have to really think ahead. It took me quite a long time to learn to appreciate the combat system, but I maintain that it's the best I've ever seen.

They're examples of existing games with medieval(-like) combat. And they have fundamentally different control schemes compared to M&B.

Of course they do. Asscreed for example has a combat system that consists of mashing one button repeatedly because combat is an extremely marginal part of the game and the opponents are there for no other reason than to die in spectacular and violent ways. That's not really the case with M&B.

[scriver]

Do you think they're serious about the whole lumberjacking/mining/smithing/farming part of the game that was mentioned a while ago?

Depends on what you mean by serious. I think it'll come down to allowing the player to use the corresponding animations, possibly at "stations" (if appropriate) á la Gothic/Risen. I highly doubt there'll be any gameplay or supportive mechanics to it. No actual growing plants or cutting down trees or anything, just being able to make PC do the raking animation without having to resort to mods.

The only thing I can see having an actual effect is mining and/or smithing, depending on if they have a crafting system for making ordinary weapons and how extensive it is. Agains, like the Gothic games.

[G-Flex]

Do you think they're serious about the whole lumberjacking/mining/smithing/farming part of the game that was mentioned a while ago?

Depends on what you mean by serious. I think it'll come down to allowing the player to use the corresponding animations, possibly at "stations" (if appropriate) á la Gothic/Risen. I highly doubt there'll be any gameplay or supportive mechanics to it. No actual growing plants or cutting down trees or anything, just being able to make PC do the raking animation without having to resort to mods.

This seems kind of silly. Why would they say that, then implement animations, and leave it completely disconnected from gameplay? If anything, I think it'll be quest-related or give the player similar resources to the ebony/glass mines in Morrowind.

[Duke 2.0]

 Those mines were just caves with chests full of heavy loot.

[scriver]

What Duke said. As for why, well, the all-animation mods were very popular. It adds "immersion". It gives an illusion of content where there is none, and costs next to nothing to implement. There's really as much sense asking why the player shouldn't be able to play all suitable.animations. Oh, and it also fits perfectly with the play pretend a seemingly large part of the fanbase appears to consider "roleplaying".

[Shadowlord]

Illegal loot, in the case of the ebony mines.

I'm expecting them to do it similar to Ultima Online, of course - in an ideal world. You take yer axe, you chop at a tree (and in UO's case, the tree doesn't bother to fall down because if it did the entire world would be deforested in a week), you get a log, and you use your dagger to turn the log into some arrow shafts and then attach feathers which you plucked from some bird that you killed, or use carpentry tools to turn it into a board, etc, then furniture, or a wooden shield, or whatever. Or you take a pickaxe and whack at a mountain for a while to get some ore, which you then smelt into iron, which you then forge into a weapon or a shield, etc, or tinker into some kind of tool. And all of this uses skill checks and requires a certain level of skill to make each item. Or you use your dagger on a tree to get kindling which you use to light a fire (using the camping skill) in order to cook raw meat or fish into something edible, although if your cooking skill sucked, you were liable to burn it instead. (Or keep a herd of sheep in your house to shear them for wool, and sell it for profit)

Seeing as they've cut back on the number of skills in Skyrim, I doubt they're adding a bunch of different crafting and resource-harvesting skills, along with camping, cooking, fishing, tracking, and so on, to make a really in-depth system. So it's probably more along the lines of Gothic II. Kill something, get raw meat, find an already existing cook pot over a fire which never goes out. Use cook pot to cook meat, and never fail. Take iron billets and make them into swords, and never fail, for unlimited profit, but first you have to become someone's apprentice. Etc.

[Lysabild]

Illegal loot, in the case of the ebony mines.

I'm expecting them to do it similar to Ultima Online, of course - in an ideal world. You take yer axe, you chop at a tree (and in UO's case, the tree doesn't bother to fall down because if it did the entire world would be deforested in a week), you get a log, and you use your dagger to turn the log into some arrow shafts and then attach feathers which you plucked from some bird that you killed, or use carpentry tools to turn it into a board, etc, then furniture, or a wooden shield, or whatever. Or you take a pickaxe and whack at a mountain for a while to get some ore, which you then smelt into iron, which you then forge into a weapon or a shield, etc, or tinker into some kind of tool. And all of this uses skill checks and requires a certain level of skill to make each item. Or you use your dagger on a tree to get kindling which you use to light a fire (using the camping skill) in order to cook raw meat or fish into something edible, although if your cooking skill sucked, you were liable to burn it instead. (Or keep a herd of sheep in your house to shear them for wool, and sell it for profit)

Seeing as they've cut back on the number of skills in Skyrim, I doubt they're adding a bunch of different crafting and resource-harvesting skills, along with camping, cooking, fishing, tracking, and so on, to make a really in-depth system. So it's probably more along the lines of Gothic II. Kill something, get raw meat, find an already existing cook pot over a fire which never goes out. Use cook pot to cook meat, and never fail. Take iron billets and make them into swords, and never fail, for unlimited profit, but first you have to become someone's apprentice. Etc.

Tree should fall, if the MMO Xsyon can do it so can a single player game.