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[Lysabild]

MOUNT AND BLADE, PLUEASE?!

[Neonivek]

I think bows suck less and less with each Elder Scrolls game.

They sort of his a niche area.

Bows don't suck now as long as you know they are not a combat weapon. They are for out of combat first strikes.

I just hope this Elder scrolls fixes up Ice magic so it just doesn't turn people blue.

[Sordid]

MOUNT AND BLADE, PLUEASE?!

You do realize the M&B system is essentially identical to the Daggerfall system, at least in terms of controls? There's no way they're doing that. They need something that's easy to control on the SuxBox gamepad.

Except for combat. Fighting still sucked. At least it looked better, I guess.

That's the one area that I think it merely improved. It's... better, but still not quite there. Specifically the fact that whether or not you hit is determined not by whether or not your weapon physicaly connects with the enemy, but by whether or not the enemy is in your crosshair. Which is especially annoying in 3rd person view, which doesn't have a crosshair.

[Virtz]

MOUNT AND BLADE, PLUEASE?!

You do realize the M&B system is essentially identical to the Daggerfall system, at least in terms of controls? There's no way they're doing that. They need something that's easy to control on the SuxBox gamepad.

It's not, though. You don't have to manually swing your mouse across the screen for it to register an attack. You just nudge it in a direction for it to know the direction and then click to attack. Plus the 4-directional blocking (unless you play with that automated).

[Sordid]

How far you have to move the mouse is just a matter of degree, not principle. And the directional blocking is an exceptionally stupid idea. I'm thinking that with the ability to control each hand separately, they're going to make use of the shoulder buttons on the controller.

[Virtz]

How far you have to move the mouse is just a matter of degree, not principle. And the directional blocking is an exceptionally stupid idea. I'm thinking that with the ability to control each hand separately, they're going to make use of the shoulder buttons on the controller.

Swinging it across the entire screen versus nudging it a little is a large difference. Also, it's worth noting that M&B had an Oblivion-like mode available as well (attack direction based on movement direction).

And the ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer. Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

[Zangi]

How far you have to move the mouse is just a matter of degree, not principle. And the directional blocking is an exceptionally stupid idea. I'm thinking that with the ability to control each hand separately, they're going to make use of the shoulder buttons on the controller.

Swinging it across the entire screen versus nudging it a little is a large difference. Also, it's worth noting that M&B had an Oblivion-like mode available as well (attack direction based on movement direction).

And the ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer. Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

That is where the shield comes in.  Board it if you can't parry it.

[Virtz]

How far you have to move the mouse is just a matter of degree, not principle. And the directional blocking is an exceptionally stupid idea. I'm thinking that with the ability to control each hand separately, they're going to make use of the shoulder buttons on the controller.

Swinging it across the entire screen versus nudging it a little is a large difference. Also, it's worth noting that M&B had an Oblivion-like mode available as well (attack direction based on movement direction).

And the ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer. Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

That is where the shield comes in.  Board it if you can't parry it.

Well, usually yes, except when facing someone with a good two-handed axe. Then your shield goes bye bye in 3 hits and you go down in 1 if you can't block. And often the people with polearms and two-handed weapons do know how to block.

[Zangi]

How far you have to move the mouse is just a matter of degree, not principle. And the directional blocking is an exceptionally stupid idea. I'm thinking that with the ability to control each hand separately, they're going to make use of the shoulder buttons on the controller.

Swinging it across the entire screen versus nudging it a little is a large difference. Also, it's worth noting that M&B had an Oblivion-like mode available as well (attack direction based on movement direction).

And the ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer. Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

That is where the shield comes in.  Board it if you can't parry it.

Well, usually yes, except when facing someone with a good two-handed axe. Then your shield goes bye bye in 3 hits and you go down in 1 if you can't block. And often the people with polearms and two-handed weapons do know how to block.

Lrn2play!

Either way, don't see a problem with that at all...

[Sordid]

The ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer.

That may be true, I wouldn't know, I never played WB multiplayer and never will. TES is not multiplayer, though, so I don't see how it's relevant.

Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

On the face of it, I agree. But I don't agree that the M&B blocking system makes it less random. In my experience, the M&B system is extremely glitchy and often interprets my mouse motion in completely the wrong way even when I move the mouse over a pretty long distance. Short, twitchy motions necessary to counter fast attacks are almost completely random for me. Maybe my mouse sucks, maybe I suck, but that's my experience with it.

[Moddan]

Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

On the face of it, I agree. But I don't agree that the M&B blocking system makes it less random. In my experience, the M&B system is extremely glitchy and often interprets my mouse motion in completely the wrong way even when I move the mouse over a pretty long distance. Short, twitchy motions necessary to counter fast attacks are almost completely random for me. Maybe my mouse sucks, maybe I suck, but that's my experience with it.

I disagree. With abit of training the M&B fighting system allows perfect blocking for an undetermined amount of time. "Glitchy" feeling only comes in multiplayer with ping > 80 or the server running a CPU-heavy mod. It's a question of muscle memory that grants close-to-perfect blocking ability at some point - even with a non-gaming mouse. In fact, that's what makes multiplayer dueling quite interesting of both duelists are good enough. Finding a way to overcome your opponents block with delayed hits, clever feints, occational follow-up attacks, movement that forces the blocker to turn to the opposite direction they have to turn the mouse for the block and so on. All this makes it the best melee system on the market in my opinion.

I agree though that this is only true for multiplayer. In a single player game all this gets dulled by the limited AI. The console cancer consortium and their eternal strive for simplification will not allow such a sophisticated fighting system anyway.

[Sordid]

Like I said, I never touched the MP, and even after years and years of playing M&B the system still seems as glitchy as ever. I guess I just suck.

But yeah, the point is moot. Simple and accessible is in vogue right now, though I'd point out that complex does not necessarily equal fun. Case in point, Die by the Sword.

[Virtz]

The ability to block well is what seperates the better from the worse players in Warband's multiplayer.

That may be true, I wouldn't know, I never played WB multiplayer and never will. TES is not multiplayer, though, so I don't see how it's relevant.

Nothing stupid about making combat less random and more skill-based in multiplayer.

On the face of it, I agree. But I don't agree that the M&B blocking system makes it less random. In my experience, the M&B system is extremely glitchy and often interprets my mouse motion in completely the wrong way even when I move the mouse over a pretty long distance. Short, twitchy motions necessary to counter fast attacks are almost completely random for me. Maybe my mouse sucks, maybe I suck, but that's my experience with it.

The system doesn't recognize long movements, only small ones. This is to accomodate quick decision making without having to rotate your view 90 degrees and lose focus of your target.

And there are people who master this to great effect. I've seen two people duke it out without shields for 2-3 minutes straight at the end of a round, constantly throwing and blocking attacks.

The system works the same as in singleplayer, so it's fairly relevant. The AI may not make the best use of it, but it's there.

Like I said, I never touched the MP, and even after years and years of playing M&B the system still seems as glitchy as ever. I guess I just suck.

But yeah, the point is moot. Simple and accessible is in vogue right now, though I'd point out that complex does not necessarily equal fun. Case in point, Die by the Sword.

That was insanely fun, actually.

[LoSboccacc]

try as hard as you want, you cannot map 3d arm movements to 2d controls.

the most close you get is the four direction system driven by mouse, which falls apart as soon as you try to attack and strafe.

don't underestimate console combat controls: better mapping of buttons allow for a very precise control of attack, defense and movement.
only that you don't find that on rpgs. you find them on the ps2 dragon ball z tenkaichi series, for example.

[Cheese]

I'm amazed at how you managed to bring back the thread as not only criticism of TESV but of M&B aswell.