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Dwarf Fortress

Minecraft

Both

[mnjiman]

Both are good games. Both are very different games. One is free and one costs only 10 bucks.

[PrimusRibbus]

How? Well, a fair part of the game is digging, digging, plopping down a torch and more digging - it is up to the beholder to consider this grinding or not.

Hmm I guess it's how you play it then; I just have a hard time understanding why people would force themselves to grind in a sandbox game. I suppose that both Minecraft and DF are pretty grindy if you devote your playtime to strip mining for mega-projects. *shrug*

[Dwarf]

Well, in DF you can just designate the whole level for strip-mining, or use macros or Quickfort or something. In Minecraft, everything's done by yourself.

[PrimusRibbus]

Well, in DF you can just designate the whole level for strip-mining, or use macros or Quickfort or something. In Minecraft, everything's done by yourself.

Well, there are also macros and utilities for Minecraft too, but personally I wouldn't find either game fun if I was just mass digging in order to get the materials for my 1:1 scale USS Enterprise mega-project. A sandbox game is what you make of it, I guess.

[muleham]

I registered to share this story. I thought you guys might find it funny or ironic in light of the thread

One of the dudes I introduced DF to hated the game because in his words: "Dwarf mode was grinding dig with your miners for an hour, so you could then go grind other stuff. Adventure mode was pure stat-grinding."

Personally I don't find DF or Minecraft grindy but sansboxy games really are in the eye of the beholder! :-) Well, 40d adventure mode mightve been a bit grindy :-P

[PrimusRibbus]

Personally I don't find DF or Minecraft grindy but sansboxy games really are in the eye of the beholder! :-) Well, 40d adventure mode mightve been a bit grindy :-P

I don't think I'd ever be down for a comic sansboxy game.

[Noble Digger]

Minecraft has pulled me away from DF for the time being until the distant future when DF has some form of multiplayer adventurer mode or multi-governor fortress mode or something. The infinite hours of solitude playing DF just isn't my thing nowadays.

[Shrugging Khan]

At least in DF, the grinding does itself while the player can plan on. You even have macros to minimize the repetitive actions.

In minecraft it's...well, I actually enjoyed the sandbox mode more than the proper single-player, simply because in it the challenge is never significant, but the creative possibilities require a lot more grind - whereas in sandbox mode me and a few mates could just build our monuments and wander around without having to worry about boring zombies that're no match to our equipment, or running out of food that's all too easily collected, or crafting that's really just another chore. Just enjoying the graphics, going wild on building awesome structures, being surprised by what the others have built. That's where minecraft shines, not its grindy grindy "real" game.

In DF, overcoming difficulties and reacting to unexpected challenges is just a lot meatier, more satisfying. In part due to the wider variety of obstacles, and in part to the very creative solutions to them. Also, the sheer tinkering is incredibly fun.

So give it multiplayer and a 3D option, and I'll never look back at minecraft again.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

So give it multiplayer and a 3D option

it is absolutely out of the table for the foreseeable future

[Kogan Loloklam]

it is absolutely out of the table for the foreseeable future

Visualizers are advancing. Eventually we'll have a 3D client. Multiplayer also has some inroads, in the manner of Dfterm2.

If the right support were provided for these, then we'd quickly develop multiplayer and 3Dness. The 3d just requires passing the commands from the 3d client to Dwarf fortress. This doesn't seem to be too far off, and it might even already exist, I don't know since I don't use visualizers.

For Multiplayer we would need to allow multiple inputs/outputs in one computer (and a system that allows more than 1 adventurer to be active in a world), and allow adventure mode to run in real time. I believe currently Dfterm2 allows multiple people to command a single fortress, but I might be wrong.

I suspect in the next 2 or so years we will have a user-created 3d interface for Dwarf Fortress. Multiplayer requires coding on Toady's end. I have no clue if it'll ever exist or not.

[PsyberianHusky]

Right now my biggest letdown with MC is the lack of need for infrastructure, you can have everything you need to produce in one building in MC, DF lets you have sprawling forts full of wonderful infastructure. When I build my MC fort its just Furnace room, storage room, farm, craft room, portal room. and thats it

[forsaken1111]

I don't even see how it could be considered a 'grind' if you simply tell the dwarves to dig and that's it.

It would be like calling Progress Quest (A game which plays itself without you) a grind.

[monk12]

The big difference I've noticed between the two when digging is that in DF you are always hitting other random kinds of stone, or any one of many different ores or gems. In Minecraft, you're looking for a handful of different things. The other day a friend of mine described the situation as "DF is Pokemon with every mon that has existed, a great variety but with many useless and redundant mons, while Minecraft is Pokemon with a single representative from each of the main element types. More practical, perhaps, but lacking in the Gotta Catch'm All aspect." He said it more eloquently than that though.

Again, I really just want Minecraft to have more of everything... like DF! BTW, is there someplace like Toady's Devnotes to see what features Notch has planned? I suppose part of my problem is that I know what Toady is going to add, but Notch seems to just add things randomly. "Halloween we get an alternate dimension with new monsters and blocks, fishing, and pumpkins!"

[Herbiie]

If the right support were provided for these, then we'd quickly develop multiplayer and 3Dness. The 3d just requires passing the commands from the 3d client to Dwarf fortress. This doesn't seem to be too far off, and it might even already exist, I don't know since I don't use visualizers.

Tbh if we kept the 2d Interface & added another slot for 3d & the game being full screen it'd make a big difference, think stone sense but in the same window as DF & with animations, you still have the entire game just with a 3d representation alongside it, with the ability to turn the 3d bit off. I don't think DF would lose any of it's charm, the main way of finding out exactly what happened in a fight would be the Combat Reports, but there's a 3d bit making it easier to visualise.

[Kogan Loloklam]

If the right support were provided for these, then we'd quickly develop multiplayer and 3Dness. The 3d just requires passing the commands from the 3d client to Dwarf fortress. This doesn't seem to be too far off, and it might even already exist, I don't know since I don't use visualizers.

Tbh if we kept the 2d Interface & added another slot for 3d & the game being full screen it'd make a big difference, think stone sense but in the same window as DF & with animations, you still have the entire game just with a 3d representation alongside it, with the ability to turn the 3d bit off. I don't think DF would lose any of it's charm, the main way of finding out exactly what happened in a fight would be the Combat Reports, but there's a 3d bit making it easier to visualise.

Dwarf Fortress is (for the most part) operated by key commands.

As such, I don't see how a 3d Visualizer program isn't quite enough. Sure you then got two programs running, but as long as the visualizer can send the keyboard commands to Dwarf Fortress, then you have a 3D interface for the game, or at least the potential for one.