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[Nikov]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, Tsarwash. I never lumped illegal drugs together beyond being illegal. Furthermore I doubt you've heard of the huge boom in tourism during the Prohibition to Cuba and other nearby countries with alcohol still legal. Given the mobility of American society I can't see an argument against people who want to use pot and not be arrested moving to a state where its legal. Perhaps you thought something was implied.

I don't see why somebody who was born on the east coast of America, and grew up on the east coast, should have to move to the west coast to continue doing something that they enjoy doing, if that something does not affect the other citizens of the east coast.

I don't know why I can't buy rum on a Sunday, but that's what people in my area want, its the law, I respect it, I don't pretend to have a right to drink myself stupid on Sunday, and if I want to do so, I'll head to Ohio.

[Earthquake Damage]

I don't know why I can't buy rum on a Sunday, but that's what people in my area want

That's what some of the people want.  I wouldn't be surprised if the majority opposed it.  That law is the result of a combination of the collective action problem + distribution of political clout (through numbers, wealth, and/or connections) + expansionist bureaucracy.

Point:  Don't confuse a law with the will of the people.

[smigenboger]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, Tsarwash. I never lumped illegal drugs together beyond being illegal. Furthermore I doubt you've heard of the huge boom in tourism during the Prohibition to Cuba and other nearby countries with alcohol still legal. Given the mobility of American society I can't see an argument against people who want to use pot and not be arrested moving to a state where its legal. Perhaps you thought something was implied.

I don't see why somebody who was born on the east coast of America, and grew up on the east coast, should have to move to the west coast to continue doing something that they enjoy doing, if that something does not affect the other citizens of the east coast.

I don't know why I can't buy rum on a Sunday, but that's what people in my area want, its the law, I respect it, I don't pretend to have a right to drink myself stupid on Sunday, and if I want to do so, I'll head to Ohio.

Not after 1PM in most counties, if I remember correctly.

Until recently I've never heard of a dry county. While meeting some new friends out of town I went to a Speedway, where someone stumbled in saying 'where's the beer cave?'. I was shocked to find there was no beer cave, even though I didn't even drink at the time.

[Nikov]

Yep. Dry counties. The amazing result of each county having referrendum votes on "Do we want to allow the sale of alcohol?". ED, no clue what you're talking about.

[Criptfeind]

Point:  Don't confuse a law with the will of the people.

It turns out that people with points of view different then yours do exist in larger numbers then you think. Maybe not where you live but they do.

[Nikov]

Point:  Don't confuse a law with the will of the people.

It turns out that people with points of view different then yours do exist in larger numbers then you think. Maybe not where you live but they do.

What? That's impossible! I am an intelligent person making a reasonable conclusion from the facts! The only way someone could arrive at a different conclusion is if they were stupid or evil! Stupid evil people shouldn't be allowed to vote!

[Earthquake Damage]

It turns out that people with points of view different then yours do exist in larger numbers then you think. Maybe not where you live but they do.

Small but politically active interest groups often get shit done regardless of whether the majority supports their views.  Thus the shit that gets done doesn't necessarily reflect the views of "people in [Nikov's] area" (as in the masses, not some interest group whose views may or may not reflect majority opinion) want.

I don't know the people in Nikov's area.  I'm just saying that "it is so" does not imply "'the people' want it".

[Nikov]

You don't know the people, yet you assume a politically active and savvy minority pushed their opinion on the rest of the citizenry. Well fortunately the wealthy and powerful establishment types are getting the boot thanks to Tea Partiers and other grassroots movements... oh wait, I forgot the narrative now is that the Tea Party is all in evil Big Coal and Big Oil's pocket and just a mouthpiece for corporatists, whoever the hell those people are.

Corrupt, stupid, evil bastards are motivating the masses to vote against their own interests through a byzantine web of thousands of local unaffiliated groups.

Do you realize you sound like Glenn Beck without a chalkboard and a 1960's book by Saul Alinsky to back it all up?*

Spoiler: * Footnote (click to show/hide)

I recognize that might be taken as a personal attack and just want to clarify I am referring to the theme of your expressed views, as I perceive them, being very similar to the theme expressed by Glenn Beck, only if Glenn Beck were Bizarro Beck and had a goatee using his show to expose Ayn Rand capitalists infiltrating the United Soviet of Amerika.

[Phmcw]

The problem of these tread is that we're quickly drawn to discuss nikov's , or worst lumin's view on politics ie ultra conservative policies.
And recent polls  showed them to be very rare on this forum.

Back on interesting politic discussion : pan-Europeanization. While America kindly destroy her economy, reputation and education by going back to the dark ages, one could think that it's Europe's time to shine.
But then we face two problem : anti-European, and there I'm looking at you Britain, who seems to think Europe is only an economical alliance with no right on the politic of the country, and pro European of the commission, who seems to think that democracy is a concept of the past. Of course, the commission is in itself a pretty good reason to be anti European, but as usual, if an argument is valid, everyone avoid using it.

And of course, there is the question of our own appointed thief : all the political formation who have made "sell the nation interest to whoever buy for our personal interest" an art. (there I'd like to say "right wing extremist" but right wing extremist are only a very good target for this kind of poeple, and anyone equally gullible is eligible, as shown by our own socialist party, or by USSR really.)

[Nikov]

And we're all over here like, "Pff. Pan-national government. Saw that shit come and go. Hellenic League. Holy Roman Empire. Comintern. Okay maybe only the first two are gone, but WE'LL SEE."

[Phmcw]

Germany, united states... you know, there is also the federal model.
And, yes he is being investigated.

ps: And you still have hopes for the Comintern. I knew you were an undercover commie!!! (sources : my sig)

[Earthquake Damage]

You don't know the people, yet you assume a politically active and savvy minority pushed their opinion on the rest of the citizenry.

My intent was to note that such things can and do happen (on issues the majority isn't passionate about, not so much on hot-button issues like, say, abortion), not that it necessarily happened in this case.  I was refuting (what I thought was) an assumption on your part that "the law exists" implies "the majority supports it".  Is it true in this case?  Hell if I know.  Is it true in general?  No.

What we have here is a failure to communicate (on my part).  Not-Me 1, Me 0

[Leafsnail]

Abortion is killing poor innocent babies. Up research for birth control and make abortion illegal unless the baby has a mental birth defect found before it's born, or if the mother's life is at risk by continuing to carry or bear the child, in which cases the mother is given a choice. If the mom doesn't want the baby just put it up for adoption once it's born.

Did you... really... just say that?

Capitalist economy has been shown in the past to heal most quickly when the government does not interfere. Stop channeling money where it's not completely and utterly necessary.

[citation needed]

Raise the voting IQ limit to 120 and lower the age limit to 14. I can honestly say that I've met more grown idiots than young idiots and that general education would be a lot stronger with these adjustments.

Obliterating the fundamental principles of democracy.  Sounds great.  Not a recipe for mass corruption and racism or anything.

Shut up about political correctness and hurting people's feelings. Everyone is not created equal - I'd hardly call the kid at my school who can't go around without a wheelchair and one of my teacher's two autistic kids equal to the average person. They should, however, have the same opportunities. And employers should be able to discriminate in whichever way they like because it's their own business and personally owned things.

...

What.

If you steal you're fined 200% the amount you stole and similar penalties would be exacted that better fit crimes than the simple system of death > jail > fines > probation/etc. that we have today.

So career thievery is a great idea as long as you get caught less than 50% of the time?

What? That's impossible! I am an intelligent person making a reasonable conclusion from the facts! The only way someone could arrive at a different conclusion is if they were stupid or evil! Stupid evil people shouldn't be allowed to vote!

It's weird how Nikov says this and then makes exactly the same fallacy in his next few posts.

[Cthulhu]

Raise the voting IQ limit to 120 and lower the age limit to 14. I can honestly say that I've met more grown idiots than young idiots and that general education would be a lot stronger with these adjustments.

So you're basing ability to vote on a nebulous statistic rather than real world experience?  Awesome.  I'm sure 14 year olds are going to vote for the best candidate and not whoever their parents think is the best candidate.

Also, according to the bell curve, 120+ is like 13% of the population.  Oh hey Oligarchy, didn't see you come in.  How's it goin'?

[Phmcw]

I really hope madk isn't serious, and is just trying to start a flame-war.