Sorry for my lateness. I'm NOT sorry that you two sat here and did nothing while I was gone.
Why don't we just make this easy?
IronyOwl is scum. Lynch him and we have a 50/50 chance of winning this right now.
Quiet you. That just happened all those other times.
Pandarsenic, which townie did you want to tunnel and be involved in a vengekill with this time?
IronyOwl starts off with a vote on Pandarsenic while shooing aside a random vote.
Unvote Pandarsenic.
GlyphGryph, it's "we're" not "where." Also, which players are you familiar with, and which are new to you?
The problem with this is that it's more of a burden of proof statement that anything else. Pandarsenic can't truly answer with an adequate answer without incriminating himself, which should have been the point of it.
Unfortunately, he withdraws from Pandarsenic and goes after Glyphgryph after gaining no real insight from Pandarsenic. Look down a post for a nice description.
Unvote Pandarsenic.
GlyphGryph, it's "we're" not "where." Also, which players are you familiar with, and which are new to you?
Yep. Definately scum. You put your token random vote on your scum buddy and then back off immediately. I see how it is.
I liked his answer. Did you not like his answer?
You didn't push his answer any further. As soon as he answered, you stopped pushing Pandarsenic, despite him not pushing anyone else. Explain what information you gathered from that?
Calling him out on it results in:
Nope. Not really.
Whether or not this happens
Statistically seems likely.
So what, he's scum for not accepting the inevitable?
(p.s. fuck you)
Profane Pandarsenic is scummy Pandarsenic.
Unvote GlyphGryph, Vote JanusTwoface. This is the least vitriolic I've seen Pandar in some time.
I won't think they're a townie at the time,
Nope, you'll know they are. You already do.
Because he feels his track record might not hold and he is, in fact, Pandarsenic? Really?
so your argument is invalid.
Non sequitur.
Fair enough.
But maybe Janus or Wuba.
Obviously not you, you're scum buddies. Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.
WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!
I don't believe I've raaaged at them yet.
You didn't at me, we've only been in one Vengeful. Webadict hasn't played in one yet. So... duh?
Are you accusing him of being scummy or just stating the obvious?
This chainsaw defends Pandarsenic's behavior and OMGUSes. Also, I'll point out why I said you were so stupid before. You said that according to Pandarsenic, he confirmed the two he stated as town. Accordingly, that makes either you and Pandarsenic scum or Glyphgryph and Pandarsenic town, but instead you voted JanusTwoface. What WAS the point of voting Janus here? Was it because he was tunneling? Was it because he pushed you too far? What was it?
Considering the hammers, I'm not so sure tossing votes around like their going out of style is the best plan...
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that.
IronyOwl, how sure are you that Janus is scum? Would you vengekill him if you were lynched?
He either has a peculiar way of pressuring me or is scum going for a lightning round. It seems a bit audacious to be the second, but pressuring someone by acting scummy is a terrible plan.
So yes, I'd vengekill him or whoever had helped vote me suspiciously.
Based off of what? According to your reasoning, you're no more sure of him than you are of anyone else at this point!
He either has a peculiar way of pressuring me or is scum going for a lightning round. It seems a bit audacious to be the second, but pressuring someone by acting scummy is a terrible plan.
I'd assume that it is I to whom you refer as pressuring someone by acting scummy. Prove it. What have I done that's scummy?
You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.
It could also be that you're bad at this, but I know that's not the case.
Nothing you've done convinces me that you're not scum.
Likewise.
The only problem here is that you haven't done anything to defend your actions. As opposed to the random vote of Janus, you decided that you'd rather say exactly what Janus is doing in an over-explanatory way. This in no way helps defend yourself. It makes you look calm and calculated, while doing nothing.
You're attempting to apply pressure using terrible logic and jumping to conclusions. The only real conclusions are that you don't mean what you say, and therefore need to be ignored, or are deliberately trying to get someone lynched using any excuse you can manage.
Terrible logic? Point it out.
Nope. Not really.
Whether or not this happens
Statistically seems likely.
So what, he's scum for not accepting the inevitable?
(p.s. fuck you)
Profane Pandarsenic is scummy Pandarsenic.
Unvote GlyphGryph, Vote JanusTwoface. This is the least vitriolic I've seen Pandar in some time.
I won't think they're a townie at the time,
Nope, you'll know they are. You already do.
Because he feels his track record might not hold and he is, in fact, Pandarsenic? Really?
so your argument is invalid.
Non sequitur.
Fair enough.
But maybe Janus or Wuba.
Obviously not you, you're scum buddies. Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.
WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!
I don't believe I've raaaged at them yet.
You didn't at me, we've only been in one Vengeful. Webadict hasn't played in one yet. So... duh?
Are you accusing him of being scummy or just stating the obvious?
You didn't like Pandar's answers, enough to call me (and him) scum for unvoting him over them. The answers you took issue with included:
-Stating he might or might not tunnel and then vengekill/be vengekilled by a townie, which you consider "statistically likely." I'd say this was unrelated, but it's basically all you've got.
-Including "(p.s. fuck you)" in his response, since Pandar's only foul-mouthed when he's scum. This is both blatantly false, at least in any game I've seen him in, and means the opposite in this case, since he's far, far less angry than usual.
-I dearly hope "I won't think they're townie at the time I tunnel them" isn't one of the things you're using against him, but anything goes at this point.
-A fairly irrelevant argument. No real indication of why it specifically makes him scum.
-His declining to list me among the people he might rage against this game. Added on to this is, I kid you not, the notion that he didn't list everyone else in the game because:
A. Would not list his scum buddy
B. Needed to throw a townie in there to make it seem less obvious
But clearly, he wouldn't list his scumbuddy for precisely that reason or leave out just his buddy because he'd know we knew that, so this basically confirms GlyphGryph as town and me as scum.
Also, I'm not trying to get someone lynched. I'm trying to get you lynched. And I'm not trying to get you lynched using any excuse. I'm trying to get you lynched because you are scum.
Excellent, Mr. Holmes. If you would explain why, we can wrap this up post haste.
But maybe Janus or Wuba.
Obviously not you, you're scum buddies. Have to leave one townie out though to not be *too* obvious.
WIFOM AHOY! Clearly he wouldn't pick one of his scumbuddies if he were because he is scum! In fact, he pretty much just confirmed the two he listed as town!
I need to know if this is sarcastic or not. Because there's some hitting that needs to go on now.
It was not. Fire away.
Forgot this earlier:
GlyphGryph, it's "we're" not "where." Also, which players are you familiar with, and which are new to you?
No, you're wrong. It's where. I forgive you though. Everyone makes mistakes. Anyways to answer your question - Everyone else in this game was around and active around the same time I was, but I've probably seen the least of you. So same question back at you.
I'm not sure I've ever seen you play.
Janus and Pandar I'm fairly accustomed to, but not as much as I'd like. Pandar more than Janus, I'd say.
webadict I've seen a little of, but not terribly much.
You complain about Janus not liking the answers, but instead of telling Janus to vote for Pandarsenic, YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND PANDARSENIC! It's not your business to defend Pandarsenic. Why would you continue to? Even based on meta arguments, you still are defending Pandarsenic by covering for him no matter what.
So, you were either trying to keep Pandarsenic from being a target and lynched, or you were trying to draw fire onto yourself and reflect OMGUS style.
Sorry, been busy. SO MUCH CATCHING UP TO DO.
So, while I have your attention, Janus, why are you trying to blitzkrieg someone? (Are you going after Toaster or Pandarsenic, because I'm still confused.) It's one thing to be aggressive, but whatever you've decided to do isn't going to work. I am having enormous difficulty even beginning to understand a word you're saying.
I'm not. Up to this point, I'm attacking IronyOwl with a bit of fallout directed at Pandarsenic. And it would be quite a feat to get Toaster lynched. Pay attention.
The way you phrased it, you knew I was scum because I was clearly token tapping my scumbuddy. Was I token tapping a townie instead for some reason?
So because it's a quick game, nonsense is alright? Huh?
It's only really "quicker" because there's five players and a distinct possibility of ending on Day 1 with a bit of luck (be it good or bad). Because it's Hammer it can be as long as it needs to be.
I misread. Let me rephrase that as "So because it's early in the game terrible logic is alright?"
Alright, but as you just said, we're early in the game. If your argument was that he was lurking or active lurking and therefore scum, why didn't you come out and say it instead of mentioning how vulgar he was? If your argument isn't that he's lurking or activelurking, what is it? That your first few words are the most critical?
It also doesn't explain why you think that in the first place. I don't think I've ever seen him not angry.
My argument was that he was being vulgar. He wasn't lurking in any form at that point, but he was vulgar. You do have a point that he's always angry and less so this time around though.
Not sure if that means that he's town or just better at covering it up this time around.
Then you've just admitted to making up and argument completely. He's vulgar when he's scum, but he's less vulgar than usual so he's either town or covering it up well? NO SHIT SHERLOCK, WHERE DOES THIS GET RELEVANT?
You don't remember this? It was around 7% of your total content at the time.
Yay statistics! 
(Did you actually calculate that?)
I did. By word count, contractions count as one word.
It's fairly implied, since the reason you think I'm scum is because I unvoted him without sufficient cause. So either he's scum, or he's acting scummy and I didn't care. You made it quite clear it was the former, but you might be able to change your story without too much difficulty.
The reason I think you're scum is because you're scum. Do you want me to change my story? That whole second half just feels weird.
"You're scum because you're scum" is not a useful response.
I know you know what sarcasm is. And if you didn't, you'd immediately want to know why I thought GlyphGryph was town.
It's true. I do. Do you?
I do, but it would mean you used it to avoid having to answer the question.
So you're the other scum? That's a load off my mind, I thought it'd be a pain convincing Pandar not to bus me.
Completely not the point. The point was that it's theoretically possible to convince your scumbuddy to lynch you (if he feels that he would benefit from the bus) but should be impossible to convince you to lynch yourself no matter your alignment.
Fair enough. Still doesn't explain why you feel no need to explain yourself. Perhaps because between you and your buddy you've got two voted in the bag?
I should probably unvote JanusTwoface to avoid incidents, however.
What incidents might those be exactly?
Reckless/scum hammers. I'm in no rush.
That being said, I'm convinced that you're more likely town than scum at this point. Could be wrong, but that's something to deal with later. unvote
Cool. You call me scum and not scum in the same post. This is not how you apply pressure, and since your arguments are garbage, I can't fathom what else you were trying to do.
But oh, you made sure to mention you could be wrong, so you can hop back on later if conditions permit/require.
You RV IronyOwl off the bat, then tunnel that into the ground, while throwing off passive attacks at Pandarsenic. I FoS you and then you vote me for no reason at all really. In fact, you expressed little concern for me UNTIL I FoSed you.
I was determining if I thought IronyOwl was scum or town. It worked.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Minor casualty, everyone thinks you're tunneling scum now. But hey 66% chance for vengekill to hit scum is a pretty awesome way to win!
Saying someone is scum without any proof has shown to be the one of the most ineffective tactics in mafia. There's hardly another method that's worked any worse. It simply doesn't work.
It's no less effective than the average random vote questions. I'll believe you if and only if you flip town and IronyOwl flips scum.
Really? How convinced are you that I'm town now?
Too townie? No. "Voice of reason"? yes.
I see. So, the quotes are supposed to explain your points for you then? I've got this little idea about you. See, you started the game off loud, in hopes of creating an image of activity for yourself. Since the beginning is all random voting, you can't be called out for anything, so you make fallacious arguments and push them. However, you're also doing this to see if anyone jumps on them. From there, I can see you diverging in two ways:
First Case: if someone votes with you, you'll either continue this line further, have your partner hammer, or jump onto the person that voted with you. Since you have fallacious arguments, it'd be easy to attack anyone that followed you, and even if you made yourself an enemy, your ultimate goal would be to get a lynch in. This involves attacking very fast and seemingly hard against several people, in hopes of getting one of them lynched. You'll also hide behind RVS.
Second Case: if someone doesn't vote the person you're voting for, you'll jump off, claiming to have had some epiphany about their alignment after your attack. You can hide behind this because, of course, it was RVS, and "you didn't have anything better." This means if you do this fast enough, you can jump to someone who will eventually be scummy enough for you. Hence, the whole rushing aspect. So, your goal here is just to jump fast.
You are scum.
Janus, you have an actual response to this? Seems plausible to me.
From everything I've seen so far far...
I'm putting my money on Pandarsenic being scum. Active Lurky, weak attacks, answers only when called.
Then comes Irony and Owl who are about tied for scum possibility.
I honestly think Janus is town at this point, though that could change with his next round of responses.
So, Pandarsenic, what are you making of all this?
Also, vote count?
WHY? You explain Pandar, then declare me and webadict possibly scum, and Janus probably town, without explaining why.
With Janus attacking someone other than you, you had the ability to lie low. I bet know that you weren't being voted anymore, you logged on, saw that you weren't being voted, and logged off and left. With your unvote, you couldn't be blamed with an accidental town lynched, and with Pandarsenic not being the target, you could hold on for a bit while Janus cooled off on you.
You can totally tell that you're trying your hardest when Janus stops voting you, because you basically stop participating. You've successfully fought your way out of the limelight and stopped worrying.
WHY? You explain Pandar, then declare me and webadict possibly scum, and Janus probably town, without explaining why.
You're not Panda, why do you care? Do you think you need to defend him for some reason? Hell, do you think its scummy of me?
Why do I care why you think a player is scum? Really? It's none of my business whether there's good evidence that he's scum or you're accusing him off nothing? None of that could be relevant to, you know, finding scum?
You also answered the opposite of my question. You gave an explanation for why Pandar was scum, I wanted to know why you felt as you did about everyone else.
Because frankly, you just wrote up that whole long post and spent all that time responding to someone who's apparently decided you were town and moved on, and completely gave up on any opportunity of going on the attack (if you think he's scummy), or using your time doing something productive by hunting someone else (if you don't). But no, you wasted all that time simply responding.
Yeah, I've been sick of my conversation with Janus for a while, but I sort of didn't want to just drop it. Now I'm going to anyway because I'm sick of it.
I've got to be honest - other than your opinion that Janus is playing poorly (which is the gist I've got from your post), what I got from that post is you're more interested of clearing yourself of any suspicions that have been levied against you than you are of actually finding the scum. Are you actually attacking him? Do you actually think he's scum? Or are you just pushing him off?
Instead, you seem to be trying to lay the groundwork for someone ELSE to do all the work accusing him of being scum, so that when he gets lynched and turns town, you have plausible reliability.
So, am I close to home here? Strike any chords?
What part of my posts have seemed intent on clearing myself, and why would they have continued past Janus unvoting and unfocusing me? What parts of my posts have been "laying groundwork" for someone else to come along and declare him scum?
And I voted Pandarsenic because I think he's scum. I don't have any fancy analysis. But something strikes me wrong about every post he's made in this game so far - I'm not good at Meta, so maybe you can tell me. Does he usually play as passively as this? Because I didn't think he did. And its just not that he's not been posting as much as other players, no, its the content of his posts.
This is decent, but you don't seem to be particularly interested in doing anything. I'm not one to talk at the moment, but don't you want to do something other than lynch him? Ask him something, maybe?
I'm not presently voting GlyphGryph, thank you very much, because I'm trying NOT to fall into the tunnelvotetunneltunnelvengekill'd pattern from the other 2 Vengeful Mafias.
I think you or GlyphGryph might be scum - much less so on you than before since you seem to have broken the "react violently to any suspicion" pattern at least somewhat.
GlyphGryph... I can't tell what the FUCK he's doing and that leads me to believe he's fucking with us in some way. He's being a total flailure and I do not know how to react and that makes me suspicious.
You are also doing nothing. Better to have tunneled and lost than never to have hunted at all.
Besides, no way Mafia would be bold enough to quickhammer me. It'd make them way too obvious.
I would, if you did it again at this point. In a hearbeat. Want to test it? Fine, I'll unvote. Place a vote on yourself, let someone else do it as well, and I'll drop the goddamn hammer.
GlyphGryph, what is this intended to accomplish? You seem like scum eager for an excuse.
Love the effort put forth here. Since Janus was busy off fighting me during this time, you decided to switch the tables around and go for Glyphgryph. You seem to have no problems with me and your problem with Janus DISAPPEARED once he stopped voting for you. It's just too convenient. You even mention it in this post.
So, what's the solution to that? Glyphgryph, of course! The source of all evil. You catch him at a bad time and push him for it. I'd even like to point out that you were worried about lynching Janus, the loud-mouth who was pushing for your lynch, but have no problems placing your vote on Glyphgryph, who's being awfully quiet.
GlyphGryph, you still haven't explained why you think Janus is town and me and webadict are tied for scum. Don't tell me it's all wintuition.
Why is it that Janus, who you believed to have been tunneling, making you feel like the game was being rushed, and was so scummy that you'd definitely vengekill him, gets unvoted to make sure you don't make a mistake, and Glyphgryph, who needs to explain something, gets to keep his vote?
It's some sort of double standard you're flying here where you won't push the guys who's pushing you. In fact, you're being cautious even now! You've had... how long to make even an attempted attack on me? At least three or four days. Have you been busy during that too? Was no one pushing you?
You seem to be so sure it's me right now but you're not VOTING me! You're not! So, either you don't want me to vengekill you, or you're waiting for Janus to make an attack for you, in hopes I kill him.
webadict, who would you most want as a scum partner?
Pandarsenic, what was your take on the early Janus/Irony exchange?
And then, WHILE YOU'RE VOTING GLYPHGRYPH, you decide to resort to BASIC RVS QUESTIONS. Because we have so little information that you have to resort to that. All the while not making any real attacks on Glyphgryph, and still holding your vote there. That means you're NOT being careful. That means you DON'T think he's scum. And why should you?
You even get off lucky because you have Glyphgryph thinking I'm scum. He doesn't shoot you, and barely shoots Pandarsenic because the rest of us are pointing him out while you're defending him.
If we lynch town, there's one town and one scum, so yes, loss.
webadict, if you wanted GlyphGryph gone, why didn't you hammer him yourself?
Which leads to a fairly obvious situation here. You're still trying to hide behind RVS questions. You're not making an attack on me, because you don't think you have to. And you managed to get Glyphgryph lynched without making yourself look suspicious.
You've done your best to make sure no one tries to lynch you. Once nobody feels your suspicious, you leave the game. I mean, why didn't you take this time to lynch who you thought was scum? Janus put up something. I could understand, because he didn't suddenly develop a suspicion of me right after Glyphgryph was lynched.
IronyOwl.
Webadict, pending your being less busy tomorrow:
Assuming that you aren't the final scum (because otherwise this question is meaningless), which of IronyOwl and myself is? And if the other were to vote, would you hammer without further discourse?
(That second question amused me to write, but I think it's sensical enough)
IronyOwl:
Who do you think is scummier and would you hammer without further discourse?
In fairness, I'll answer as well. Webadict and it depends on his answer to my question. Right now, no.
I think this answer that.
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Topic: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Game Over - Town Wins (Read 40666 times)