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Author Topic: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Game Over - Town Wins  (Read 40850 times)

Pandarsenic

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2010, 10:59:48 pm »

Man, I never realized how unconvincing Wintuition sounded until GlyphGryph tried it.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2010, 11:12:26 pm »

Man, I never realized how unconvincing Wintuition sounded until GlyphGryph tried it.
This doesn't by any chance mean you're going to stop using it? :-\
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2010, 11:30:43 pm »

*Looks at GlyphGryph's post*

I'll try, at least. Just gotta use it to pick targets then get actual evidence/
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webadict

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2010, 06:30:35 am »

It's no less effective than the average random vote questions.  I'll believe you if and only if you flip town and IronyOwl flips scum.
Which also aren't very effective. Plus, the point is to be the best situation out of all of them. So, being on par isn't good enough. But, I suppose it isn't the worst. I was just exaggerating a little.

I'm telling him that I think it's useless and that he can do better. He hasn't so far.
The same could be said of you. Just because your way and his way aren't the same, doesn't mean that his way isn't any less important or informational. In fact, by him explaining the events, you can find particular biases in the information, as opposed to point-by-point replies, which make it more difficult to.

And I don't feel like I'm rushing the game. Thus if you feel that I am, you must either feel rushed or believe that someone else does. Haven't heard anything to the effect.
IronyOwl posted that he felt relieved to know that there is no time pressure. So, someone did indeed feel rushed. And it was the person you were voting. I think if you ask him, he could say he felt rushed because of you. I can't speak for him personally, but I think it's possible and likely.

People in general, you in particular, have this warped idea that pressure and votes are inexplicatbly tied together.  Pressure is getting someone to talk. IronyOwl was talking. You're talking. Voting has little to do with it.
It is one of the biggest parts of the game and is a way to create pressure; however, it creates pressure only in the form of bandwagons or on newbies.

Then you are completely missing the point. 
Perhaps, but I find that any interpretation is possible. If I don't, I'll hit myself for it.

As for why I targeted you, I'll admit it wasn't a very good reason.  I targeted you because I don't like you. I would absolutely love for you to be the Godfather and lynched Day 1. Not that it would put a dent in your ego, but so it goes.
I think there's some sort of anti-webadict club somewhere. You should join it. Plus, this doesn't explain how you think I'm scum.

Third Case: I stay on you until I'm convinced that you're not scum.
Right. Well, here's the deal: You can stay on me all day (That's what she said), but you're never going to know I'm not scum, so you can either:
A) Believe me. Unfortunately, your sorry state is still scummy because you refuse to acknowledge any evidence I provide, provide any more evidence for me to refute, or counter-refute my said arguments.
or B) Not believe me.

The only problem here is if you're a Townie, you're wasting a vote that could otherwise be helping the Town.

Lynch me.  I'd love to vengekill you.
If you did have a vengekill, then we'd lose. Congrats.

Unvote self

Further reading evidences that you refuse to make any sort of response to it being pointed out that you're attacking everyone who looks at you, like some sort of rabid squirrel.

Now, as nobody added to my vote on me, I will officially dub anyone who states I was lurking or activelurking in this period a hypocrite for not voting me for the supposed offense when I basically invited them to.
Here's a very good question though: Why did you vote yourself at all? Couldn't you have managed a "I'm lurking right now" post without voting yourself? *sigh*

I just don't know anymore.

Wait what? What does 'cow us into buddying you' even mean? Buddying is something scum do. No matter how amusing it would be, I can't make someone scum.
Not true. Buddying happens from both scum and town. It's the town that usually gets screwed because of it though.

First Case: if someone votes with you, you'll either continue this line further, have your partner hammer, or jump onto the person that voted with you. Since you have fallacious arguments, it'd be easy to attack anyone that followed you, and even if you made yourself an enemy, your ultimate goal would be to get a lynch in. This involves attacking very fast and seemingly hard against several people, in hopes of getting one of them lynched. You'll also hide behind RVS.
- If someone votes with me before I'm convinced that you're innocent, then I'll continue to vote you.
- No, I'm not joing to jump onto the person who voted me. Why would I?
- You're stuck on this idea of my rushing the game. I maintain that I wasn't trying to and didn't actually rush the game.
- My stance is and always has been that RVS is bull, so why would I hide behind it. The whole point of scum hunting is to get people to talk, which I'm doing.
I FoSed you, and you jumped on me. So, you did OMGUS, if only a little bit. And, you did hide behind RVS. You used a fallacy to vote someone. So, if you truly think RVS is bull, then why did you use it as an excuse to vote? Either you think it's not bull or you weren't thinking IronyOwl was Town.

Second Case: if someone doesn't vote the person you're voting for, you'll jump off, claiming to have had some epiphany about their alignment after your attack. You can hide behind this because, of course, it was RVS, and "you didn't have anything better." This means if you do this fast enough, you can jump to someone who will eventually be scummy enough for you. Hence, the whole rushing aspect. So, your goal here is just to jump fast.
- If no one else votes you before I'm convinced you're innocent, I'll stay right where I am.
- If someone else becomes so scummy that I can't ignore them, then maybe I'll hammer.  With the players in this game, I doubt that'll be an issue.
- If my goal were to jump fast, why have I only changed my vote once all game?
That last statement is pointless. It'd be scummier to keep jumping now that I've pointed it out. The other ones don't refute the evidence I provide again!

Janus, are you some sort of gaping black hole for evidence? My God, man. You NEVER REFUTE THE EVIDENCE! You walk past it, sarcasm it, point out a similarity or two, or deflect. You just DON'T REFUTE EVIDENCE! It's like talking to a wall.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2010, 03:01:14 pm »

The same could be said of you. Just because your way and his way aren't the same, doesn't mean that his way isn't any less important or informational. In fact, by him explaining the events, you can find particular biases in the information, as opposed to point-by-point replies, which make it more difficult to.
I guess. It's not particularly bad when he did it this soon. It's soo much worse when the games get longer and you have this giant splat of all everything done up until now... Ug.

IronyOwl posted that he felt relieved to know that there is no time pressure. So, someone did indeed feel rushed. And it was the person you were voting. I think if you ask him, he could say he felt rushed because of you. I can't speak for him personally, but I think it's possible and likely.
He's the only person that I would want to feel rushed. That's the point of applying pressure. So I probably spoke poorly earlier. I don't indent (and don't think I did) rush the game in general, but rather one specific person.

It is one of the biggest parts of the game and is a way to create pressure; however, it creates pressure only in the form of bandwagons or on newbies.
So do you agree with me or not that people are overly obsessed with votes == pressure? I can't tell... :-\

I think there's some sort of anti-webadict club somewhere. You should join it. Plus, this doesn't explain how you think I'm scum.
That's why I started voting you, not why I'm still voting you.

If you did have a vengekill, then we'd lose. Congrats.
So you did the same thing I did... If we both are town, then you're quite correct. But what're the chances of that?

(I worked it out.  30% chance that we're both town with no other information. No, this really isn't useful, but it's pretty interesting.)

I FoSed you, and you jumped on me. So, you did OMGUS, if only a little bit. And, you did hide behind RVS. You used a fallacy to vote someone. So, if you truly think RVS is bull, then why did you use it as an excuse to vote? Either you think it's not bull or you weren't thinking IronyOwl was Town.
You'd just have to believe this, but your FoS didn't have anything to do with my vote on you. RVS vs random questions is probably more accurate. I think that may be the bigger problem.

Janus, are you some sort of gaping black hole for evidence? My God, man. You NEVER REFUTE THE EVIDENCE! You walk past it, sarcasm it, point out a similarity or two, or deflect. You just DON'T REFUTE EVIDENCE! It's like talking to a wall.
I honestly don't know how to respond to this... I thought I was.



Original three points against webadict:

Sidelining, attention to detail|Both have stopped since then
Big bold voice of reason|You did only once, arguably the weakest reason to start with
Lemony vitriol|Angry, but not to the point you are when scum

unvote Webadict
(Why do I have the feeling that this will just make me look more suspicious in your eyes?)



Vote Pandarsenic at the very least until you explain why you felt the need to vote yourself.  Yes, you are now at L-1.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2010, 03:24:36 pm »

Because I get sick of people voting me later for "lurking" they didn't care enough to vote for at the time. I did it to force anyone who wanted to do that to either call it AT THE TIME or SHUT UP AND FUCK OFF like good little children.

Besides, no way Mafia would be bold enough to quickhammer me. It'd make them way too obvious.
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YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

JanusTwoface

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2010, 03:28:55 pm »

I don't think it's a good reason, but it is a reason at least.

So far as I can tell (vote count?) you aren't voting anyone. Because you're online: why not, who do you think is scum, and why?
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webadict

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2010, 05:22:32 pm »

I don't think it's a good reason, but it is a reason at least.

So far as I can tell (vote count?) you aren't voting anyone. Because you're online: why not, who do you think is scum, and why?
Um. Well, I think Pandarsenic has 2 votes, you have 1 vote, and... Something something?

I'm not really sure. Let's see... I'm voting you, GlyphGryph/Janus are voting Pandarsenic, Pandarsenic is voting GlyphGryph. And that's it.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2010, 06:22:16 pm »

I'm not presently voting GlyphGryph, thank you very much, because I'm trying NOT to fall into the tunnelvotetunneltunnelvengekill'd pattern from the other 2 Vengeful Mafias.

I think you or GlyphGryph might be scum - much less so on you than before since you seem to have broken the "react violently to any suspicion" pattern at least somewhat.

GlyphGryph... I can't tell what the FUCK he's doing and that leads me to believe he's fucking with us in some way. He's being a total flailure and I do not know how to react and that makes me suspicious.
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KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

webadict

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2010, 07:01:58 pm »

I'm not presently voting GlyphGryph, thank you very much, because I'm trying NOT to fall into the tunnelvotetunneltunnelvengekill'd pattern from the other 2 Vengeful Mafias.

I think you or GlyphGryph might be scum - much less so on you than before since you seem to have broken the "react violently to any suspicion" pattern at least somewhat.

GlyphGryph... I can't tell what the FUCK he's doing and that leads me to believe he's fucking with us in some way. He's being a total flailure and I do not know how to react and that makes me suspicious.
Well, then who are you FoSing.? Or after? Or what?

I'm going to Unvote for now.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2010, 07:06:45 pm »

I've primarily FoS'd GlyphGryph and Janus (less so now than before, as I said) for the time being, yus?
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KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

JanusTwoface

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2010, 07:58:36 pm »

Good enough for now.  unvote

Sorry, been busy. SO MUCH CATCHING UP TO DO.
How's that catching up going?  Been more than 24 hours since you last posted here although you have been online.
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webadict

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2010, 07:59:06 pm »

GlyphGryph also needs to talk.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2010, 08:23:31 pm »

I do need to talk.

Quote from: pandascum
Because I get sick of people voting me later for "lurking" they didn't care enough to vote for at the time. I did it to force anyone who wanted to do that to either call it AT THE TIME or SHUT UP AND FUCK OFF like good little children.

When someone accuse you of lurking? Because I accused you of active lurking which is a much different crime. It wasn't that you weren't posting - life can get busy, I know that. Its that when you WERE posting you were posting drivel meant to look like you were contributing, without actually contributing. You still are. What is this BS

Frankly? I think it's bs. Its bravado. You're making excuses (like midterms) for things unrelated to those excuses (the fact that you AREN'T LOOKING FOR SCUM). You're saying things like "no one would dare hammer me" and then talking about why you aren't hunting because you don't want to tunnel. As if! You're not even close to fucking tunneling, no worries about that - you're not even looking for scum. All you're trying to do (and doing a miserable job of it, near as I can tell) is make yourself look town by, to all appearances, doing stupid things like voting yourself.

Quote
because I'm trying NOT to fall into the tunnelvotetunneltunnelvengekill'd pattern from the other 2 Vengeful Mafias.
Since you don't want to tunnel and get vengekilled, you're not going to hunt at all? Why aren't you pushing me? You said you think I'm the scummiest person here! Why? Where's your evidence? If you don't have any, what are you planning on doing to get some? Because from my point of view, it doesn't even look like you're trying.
Quote from: pandar
GlyphGryph... I can't tell what the FUCK he's doing and that leads me to believe he's fucking with us in some way. He's being a total flailure and I do not know how to react and that makes me suspicious.
What I'm doing right now is voting for the scum, and doing my best to gather enough evidence to get other people to lynch him. Since I'm the only one voting for you, yes - I am being a total failure. At least I'm trying - not sitting there saying "oh, the guy who's voting me is kind of scummy, totally, but I'm not going to say why or press him or try to gather evidence or anything because hey noone is listening to him so I'm just gonna brush him off in a way that doesn't draw attention to me"

All I've wanted from you since the start of this game was a little bit of hunting, and any evidence (any at all) that you aren't scum. I haven't seen a shred of it. I've seen evidence from all the others that they are town (obviously not overwhelming evidence, since one of them isn't, but something) while I've seen nothing from you but passive omgus.

So tunnel me. Go ahead. Raaaaage against me. At least then, if you're town, I'd be able to find something in your actions to convince me of that.

Quote from: panda
Besides, no way Mafia would be bold enough to quickhammer me. It'd make them way too obvious.
I would, if you did it again at this point. In a hearbeat. Want to test it? Fine, I'll unvote. Place a vote on yourself, let someone else do it as well, and I'll drop the goddamn hammer.


-
Finally, what the hell is wintuition?
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IronyOwl

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 4 - Day 1
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2010, 08:47:54 pm »

Quote
WHY? You explain Pandar, then declare me and webadict possibly scum, and Janus probably town, without explaining why.
You're not Panda, why do you care? Do you think you need to defend him for some reason? Hell, do you think its scummy of me?
Why do I care why you think a player is scum? Really? It's none of my business whether there's good evidence that he's scum or you're accusing him off nothing? None of that could be relevant to, you know, finding scum?

You also answered the opposite of my question. You gave an explanation for why Pandar was scum, I wanted to know why you felt as you did about everyone else.

Because frankly, you just wrote up that whole long post and spent all that time responding to someone who's apparently decided you were town and moved on, and completely gave up on any opportunity of going on the attack (if you think he's scummy), or using your time doing something productive by hunting someone else (if you don't). But no, you wasted all that time simply responding.
Yeah, I've been sick of my conversation with Janus for a while, but I sort of didn't want to just drop it. Now I'm going to anyway because I'm sick of it.

I've got to be honest - other than your opinion that Janus is playing poorly (which is the gist I've got from your post), what I got from that post is you're more interested of clearing yourself of any suspicions that have been levied against you than you are of actually finding the scum. Are you actually attacking him? Do you actually think he's scum? Or are you just pushing him off?
Instead, you seem to be trying to lay the groundwork for someone ELSE to do all the work accusing him of being scum, so that when he gets lynched and turns town, you have plausible reliability.

So, am I close to home here? Strike any chords?
What part of my posts have seemed intent on clearing myself, and why would they have continued past Janus unvoting and unfocusing me? What parts of my posts have been "laying groundwork" for someone else to come along and declare him scum?

And I voted Pandarsenic because I think he's scum. I don't have any fancy analysis. But something strikes me wrong about every post he's made in this game so far - I'm not good at Meta, so maybe you can tell me. Does he usually play as passively as this? Because I didn't think he did. And its just not that he's not been posting as much as other players, no, its the content of his posts.
This is decent, but you don't seem to be particularly interested in doing anything. I'm not one to talk at the moment, but don't you want to do something other than lynch him? Ask him something, maybe?


I'm not presently voting GlyphGryph, thank you very much, because I'm trying NOT to fall into the tunnelvotetunneltunnelvengekill'd pattern from the other 2 Vengeful Mafias.

I think you or GlyphGryph might be scum - much less so on you than before since you seem to have broken the "react violently to any suspicion" pattern at least somewhat.

GlyphGryph... I can't tell what the FUCK he's doing and that leads me to believe he's fucking with us in some way. He's being a total flailure and I do not know how to react and that makes me suspicious.
You are also doing nothing. Better to have tunneled and lost than never to have hunted at all.


Quote from: panda
Besides, no way Mafia would be bold enough to quickhammer me. It'd make them way too obvious.
I would, if you did it again at this point. In a hearbeat. Want to test it? Fine, I'll unvote. Place a vote on yourself, let someone else do it as well, and I'll drop the goddamn hammer.
GlyphGryph, what is this intended to accomplish? You seem like scum eager for an excuse.
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