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[Jetsquirrel]

would be handier if you directed the question to a person with a name.

[Flintus10]

Well I assumed the quote and context made it clear enough but I will keep that in mind from now on

[Azure Sepulchre]

Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?

I'm not all that experienced at forum Mafia, (hence the reason I'm in this game) but - as far as wanton lurkers are concerned - I'd imagine the best way to lure them out of the woodwork is with the very real threat of a lynch. If even that doesn't work, then they're either so determinedly trying to injure the town with their inactivity that they'd be worth killing even if they're not scum or they're simply not playing.

To put it concisely? Give him no option but to go on the complete defensive if he wants to stay in the game. And as for how I feel about them... they're useful as scum, and a waste of space for town. If I hadn't hooked onto Otto so early into the game and started all this, I would've gone for ragnarok by now. Hell, he's replaced you at the top of the list for now, Mind. This amount of silence from one person simply isn't right - particularly when he's been cast under such an intense spotlight for most of the game.

If (bolded for emphasis) this was a trap, like I described it in my last post, I would have needed some planning and communication. And only two of the players here would be allowed to do that.

Indeed, it would have - in order to make it risk free. However, I went into this kind of attack knowing nothing about Elegy worth knowing in this game, but I thought I had developed the trap enough to make it reliable enough in a game where I doubted anyone would be experienced enough to see through it.

It's like the die has been cast, without considering what most of the other players are thinking.

Every other player is welcome to interject as much as they like to my own desired lynch. I'm not stopping anyone. Perhaps I could even be persuaded, although someone'd have to work some pretty damn suave charm to get me to back off from Otto after all the scumtells he's dropped.

So it's already cast in stone?
Looks like you take care of people who come in your way fairly quick.
How convenient!

...when did I say it was cast in stone? Things can change very, very easily in Mafia. My top scum-buddy - or at the very least, lurker-kill - at the moment is ragnarok, due to his common and protracted absences. It could very easily change back to you, or switch to anyone else if I'm given reason. Don't presume I'm a bull-headed buffoon just because I'm so adamant about Otto.

If Ottofar turns out to be town, we might get a good lead to where the mafia is.
However if he turns out to be mafia, there's a good chance I might become the next lynch.
But if I turn out to be innocent, guess who has a good chance of getting lynched himself?

Presuming the maf-buddy doesn't revenge-kill me.
Also, if you're gonna try and threaten me away from you, you chose the wrong game to do it. I've got my eye on you, dammit. o.o

How should I know?
This is my first game of mafia, remember?
Therefore I can't give him the benefit of the doubt.

So these passages, which seem "normal" to you, seem fishy to me.

Cool.

Protip: next time you want to FoS me, have actual reasons, mate.

lol what

There's nothing I can even contend, because you're just putting words in my mouth.. So, uhhh. good? Attack?

P.s. Sidestepping is when you avoid an attack, which... I didn't do... So...

After that he simply ignored your next post.

...what, are you surprised that I'm not pissed off or something?

I'd act the same way to someone behaving belligenently towards me for an ill-concieved/no reason. I was afraid his dismissal of my FOS/vote might rub scum off of voting for him, so I acted more aggressive in order to give the impression I wouldn't shift my vote unless something big happened. As far as I can tell, it worked.

However you really can't compare Murphy to Elegy, if you walk into a game unprepossessed.
The answer "He always acts like that" isn't satisfactory, when you you play with a bunch of people, who don't actually know him.

...fair point. I also like the use of the word 'unprepossessed'. I so rarely think to use it, myself...

Eh, I digress. The bottom line is I took a calculated risk to find scum. I had a paif of contingencies in place, to salvage what I could from the trap if it did not go as I had intended. As it turns out, it has gone quite smoothly - however, you appear to be under the presumption that it was my intention to orchesrate all of this in order to protect Elegy/Jet. You are, in fact, mistaken. I have done nothing to distract from asking questions of Elegy, unless it directly got in the way of my argument with Otto. You lot were welcome to do with him as you wished, as far as I was concerned.

I had hooked myself a fish, and I wanted to roast it fresh. Huh... surprisingly apt metaphor. >.>

I'm sorry, if I offended you, but as I said we're running out of time.
And as I already mentioned, it's just one of many possibilities.
If I'd be absolutely sure about the accuracy of my theory, I'd have already cast my vote, wouldn't I?

Most of my points, however, might loose any substance they might have, once Jetsquirrel starts posting.
So all that's left is to wait.

...eh? Offended? Pfft. XD I was just having a bit of fun. Think nothing of it.

Anyway, now that Jet has posted, has he influenced your opinion any?

I think there was more I wanted to respond to, but I can't remember, I'm tired and I've lost patience with my keyboard. Ciao.

[Murphy]

About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.

Also, I didn't quite get Jetsquirrel's reasons to call his (well, Elegy's) vote back.

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

ragnarok97071: {1} Spade
Flintus10: {0}
Mindmaker: {0}
Jetsquirrel: {1} Ottofar
Ottofar: {4} Flintus10, Azure Sepulchre, KaminaSquirtle, Murphy
KaminaSquirtle: {0}
Spade: {0}
Azure Sepulchre: {0}
Murphy: {0}

Not Voting: Mindmaker, ragnarok97071, Jetsquirrel


Day 1 ends Thursday 10/28 11 PM EST
(13 3/4 hours from now)

[Jetsquirrel]

About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.

Also, I didn't quite get Jetsquirrel's reasons to call his (well, Elegy's) vote back.

the reason is that Ottofar is broken and condemned to death my 4rth vote would not make much difference at that point

[Ottofar]

Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?

Lynch all Lurkers. In a BM, it's quite hard, without quite rough attacking.

[Mindmaker]

Presuming the maf-buddy doesn't revenge-kill me.
Also, if you're gonna try and threaten me away from you, you chose the wrong game to do it.

I'm not threatening anyone, I'm merely speculating.

Anyway, now that Jet has posted, has he influenced your opinion any?

All I can say, that replacing a player in a game of mafia, is the single worst thing you can do.
It just seems unfair, to pin everything Elegy said and did on Jetsquirrel.
However it also opens up some new possibilities and new questions I could ask.

You're either a smart mafia member, or an innocent townie, Azure.
I really can't tell which one, as I haven't found any dirt on you.
Guess I have to look elsewhere for now.

Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)

Let me rephrase that question:
On a scale from 1-10 how well did Elegy play as a
 a.) townie?
 b.) a member of the mafia?

You say so much without giving any reasoning, WHAT questions didn't you like my answers to and WHY didn't you like them.

Well, then let's make up for the leeway.

Really Ottofar you don't seem to have provided any evidence of this is it possible you are just going on Azure's opinion without formulating one on your own, scum?

Very early in the game, when there was a lot of random voting going on, you were the first one to call someone scum (while Ottofar only said he "found" him scum).
Panicked, because your scumbuddy was in distress?
Can't tell, however it doesn't seem like a normal reaction to me.

I see very little real evidence as Ottofar has yet to post too much substance I do know for certain he still has not provided evidence that gives any reason for him to have been initially suspicious of elegy and his only excuse was essentially that he agreed with Azure's points and what do you know it turns out they were not based on anything either so Ottofar has essentially just voted for Elegy because someone else was.

So after he started to asking random question and making random votes, suddenly you jump on him as he votes for Elegy.
Just coincidence?
It looked like he did let go of a person, as soon as they provided him with an a satisfactory answer.
However Elegy didn't do that, instead he became agressive and even resorted to namecalling.
That alone should have been enough for him to see, that he obviously had hit a nerve.
In the meantime, you lurked until Ottofar had another vote on him (3 in total) and several people had announced, that they were watching him closely, until you resumed posting, as it seemed innocent enough by then.

I am almost certain that Ottofar is scum.

See above.

Also he is yet to come up with a reasonable defence for his actions[...]

The same applies to you.
After this post all, you did was asking random question, without doing anything with the answers you got.
You did only speak up, providing a longer answer, when I attacked you and your decision in some way.

Also you have actually started to post alot more content ever since Ottofar was a certainty to be lynched and I am half suspicious that may be because a scum IC may be feeding you your information.

You're right in that point.
Ottofar was certainly to be lynched quite early in the game. However the amount of content I posted began to grow gradually, much later in the game.
There was simply much more information posted by that time, to build theorys upon.
Also while I had no idea how to play in the beginning, so I kept watching the seemingly more experienced players and their tactics.
I especially took a liking in the PBPA, which Azure seems to use a lot.

What information is my IC supposed to be feeding me, in your opinion, Flintus?

[Flintus10]

Very early in the game, when there was a lot of random voting going on, you were the first one to call someone scum (while Ottofar only said he "found" him scum).
Panicked, because your scumbuddy was in distress?
Can't tell, however it doesn't seem like a normal reaction to me.

Well someone is always going to be the first person to call somebody scum for one.

And plus "Finding someone scum" is exactly the same as labelling them scum Ottofar was actually the first one to legitimately label somebody as scum seeing as Azure was just using his gambit.

And the reason I initially voted for Ottofar as I stated was because he blatantly labelled Elegy as scum and then even when I asked him he refused to provide any reason whatsoever. I asked him what gives and he said that he clearly stated that he was following Azure's line of reasoning which even Azure knows was complete crap.

That is why it was my opinion that Ottofar was scum as he immediately jumped on the first person to actually have any kind of case brought against them. And he didn't even have his own reasons he was using somebody else’s. In RVS that is enough of a tell to justify my initial vote, and Ottofar's actions since then he simply deflected every single question and would refuse to justify his actions which is why my suspicions only intensified. And now he has simply resigned himself to his fate and refuses to co-operate or do anything productive with the town. Even you his self-appointed defence attorney must admit that.

So after he started to asking random question and making random votes, suddenly you jump on him as he votes for Elegy.
Just coincidence?
It looked like he did let go of a person, as soon as they provided him with an a satisfactory answer.
However Elegy didn't do that, instead he became agressive and even resorted to namecalling.
That alone should have been enough for him to see, that he obviously had hit a nerve.
In the meantime, you lurked until Ottofar had another vote on him (3 in total) and several people had announced, that they were watching him closely, until you resumed posting, as it seemed innocent enough by then.

Jeez man did you not see this

Fair enough

Anyways just a heads up that I will be gone for about a day so any questions will take awhile to recieve an answer.

I said I would be gone for 24 hours and that is basically how long it took for me to post again. You can’t say that is lurking. I WAS NEVER ONLINE (sorry but you’re the second person to point to this so I’d like to make it clear)

What information is my IC supposed to be feeding me, in your opinion, Flintus?

Well naturally I would not know for certain but posts to look at, tells other players have made ways to counter arguments ect ect. I mean at the start you literally seemed that you had no idea what was going on your posts were weak you even when you finally realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for you to have gotten better I find it a little suspicious.

If Ottofar flips mafia then I will be quite suspect of you being his scum-buddy as he stopped posting around when you started getting better and you both seem to have the exact same opinions of me. Though if you were scumbuddy's I don't understand why you are defending his actions (see your second quote)

[Flintus10]

Also Spade, Kamina,Murphy, Ragnarok Look at all this lovely text for you to analyse lets see some action lads!

[KaminaSquirtle]

Also Spade, Kamina,Murphy, Ragnarok Look at all this lovely text for you to analyse lets see some action lads!

Yeah, no kidding!

Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?

I'm not all that experienced at forum Mafia, (hence the reason I'm in this game) but - as far as wanton lurkers are concerned - I'd imagine the best way to lure them out of the woodwork is with the very real threat of a lynch. If even that doesn't work, then they're either so determinedly trying to injure the town with their inactivity that they'd be worth killing even if they're not scum or they're simply not playing.

To put it concisely? Give him no option but to go on the complete defensive if he wants to stay in the game. And as for how I feel about them... they're useful as scum, and a waste of space for town. If I hadn't hooked onto Otto so early into the game and started all this, I would've gone for ragnarok by now. Hell, he's replaced you at the top of the list for now, Mind. This amount of silence from one person simply isn't right - particularly when he's been cast under such an intense spotlight for most of the game.

I agree 100% with first paragraph, nothing to add to this.

Agree on ragnarok.  This much lurking from one guy is IMPOSSIBLE, I mean lurking like that doesn't even HAPPEN.  I very much expect you to write a insightful post as to why you have been so lurky, if you want to live, ragnarok.  Oh yeah, and actually CONTRIBUTE.

About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.

Also, I didn't quite get Jetsquirrel's reasons to call his (well, Elegy's) vote back.

the reason is that Ottofar is broken and condemned to death my 4rth vote would not make much difference at that point

So why remove it?  What would that gain you?

Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?

Lynch all Lurkers. In a BM, it's quite hard, without quite rough attacking.

For once I agree, in general that is.  In this case...
If you turn out to be scum, then I suspect you're trying to protect your scumbuddy.
Which means your scumbuddy isn't a lurker.
Just something to think about.

Anyway, now that Jet has posted, has he influenced your opinion any?

All I can say, that replacing a player in a game of mafia, is the single worst thing you can do.
It just seems unfair, to pin everything Elegy said and did on Jetsquirrel.
However it also opens up some new possibilities and new questions I could ask.

How exactly is it bad?  It should benefit the town, as they know they have the same role, but they may have different approaches to it.  So we get to see two different performances of the same role, and therefore get more data to analyze.

Unless you're scum, and Elegy/Jetsquirrel is innocent, and you don't like that Elegy got replaced by someone who wouldn't get themselves lynched for being stupid, unlike Elegy.

What information is my IC supposed to be feeding me, in your opinion, Flintus?

Well naturally I would not know for certain but posts to look at, tells other players have made ways to counter arguments ect ect. I mean at the start you literally seemed that you had no idea what was going on your posts were weak you even when you finally realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for you to have gotten better I find it a little suspicious.

If Ottofar flips mafia then I will be quite suspect of you being his scum-buddy as he stopped posting around when you started getting better and you both seem to have the exact same opinions of me. Though if you were scumbuddy's I don't understand why you are defending his actions (see your second quote)

Hmmm, many good points made here.  I agree.  This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning.  I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok.  The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comment.

Why are you defending Ottofar's actions, Mindmaker?


And just so you know, I have two midterms and a lab report due next week, so my activity may die down a bit.  Just a heads up.

[ragnarok97071]

Well, actually, I just don't post much ever. Really, there is usually not much that I can think of something to say to. also, I have most of my day taken up by either school or sleeping, as well as other things I do with my family. I usually post when I can. I am NOT going to wake up early just so I can play this game, and it's pretty much impossible for me to stay up past 10:00 EST (In high school, so I have a curfew), so I have 7 and a half hours in which I can do stuff, minus a half for walking home, minus a half for dinner, minus others from when I just don't check (about 2 hours in full), and for today, minus a bunch for going out to dinner and playing Magic the Gathering with my bro. I show up as online a lot because I usually leave a tab open on the "Unread Replies" page when I leave. I have things that I am obligated to do outside of this thread, guys, and to be honest, this actually doesn't rate too high on my priorities right now, mostly because of all of the hate I seem to be catching (yes I am aware that most of that is because I don't post here much, thus making it a vicious cycle), though I know that this is so that you can semi-reliably find the people who need to die (in game). Hell, if all goes well, I may not be able to get on during any time but the weekends, as I am trying to find a part-time job. I was unaware that I needed approval in triplicate in order to have a life away from this game. Also I play dwarf fortress, and it tends to hold me for a few hours at a time.

Anyway, as to why I voted for Murphy at first, it was mostly because I really don't trust anyone, even now, as well as that he just happened to seem a bit... off. of course, this is the DF forums, so that should have been expected. I removed the vote partly because he seemed a bit less untrustworthy (still not trustworthy, IMO) than he had seemed, and partly because even if I still harbored suspicions toward him, the rest of you are all locked onto Otto, and I agree with that, but I have no solid evidence to go on, so I refrain from voting for him, as well as for reasons I have already stated (overkill). I also will probably abstain from voting for the rest of the day, as it would be futile.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Hey, that's cool.  It's just people like to know these things.  I believe you, and that makes my suspicion of you go down significantly.  We just had no way of knowing you weren't lurking this entire time.  Now I know you're not.

And what exactly seems off about Murphy?  What makes you think him untrustworthy?

And you know what this means, Mindmaker?  You're number one on my list of scumbuddies for Otto, with no one else that close at all.  Then again, I don't have too much evidence for you, or anyone else at this point.  It's just a suspicion at this point.

[Toaster]

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

ragnarok97071: {1} Spade
Flintus10: {0}
Mindmaker: {0}
Jetsquirrel: {1} Ottofar
Ottofar: {4} Flintus10, Azure Sepulchre, KaminaSquirtle, Murphy
KaminaSquirtle: {0}
Spade: {0}
Azure Sepulchre: {0}
Murphy: {0}

Not Voting: Mindmaker, ragnarok97071, Jetsquirrel



After a long day of discussion, it is clear that Ottofar will be the one to hang.

“Time to die, mafioso!” shouts Murphy.

Ottofar just stares at him coldly.  “You know what?  I don’t care any more.  Just hang me and end my misery.”  He stands up and walks under the gallows in the lobby.  As a group, you get him on the chair, tie up the rope, and kick the chair out.  A short drop later, Ottofar is dead.

You untie him and search his belongings.  His room is mostly bare, with only a couple auto magazines to read.  In his wallet, you find a ripped Alcoholics Anonymous card, a little cash, and his driver’s license.  There’s nothing incriminating, and it appears that he was a simple Townsperson, caught up in the crime wave like many of the rest of you.

Unhappily, the group disperses and goes into their rooms for the night.  There are still two criminals out there- are you safe in your beds here in the hotel?

You are Jack Wilson, a Townsperson.
You’ve worked as a auto mechanic in Tewby Vale for several long years.  After your wife left you for one of your coworkers, you began a deep, bitter slide into depression and drinking.  Your erratic behavior is likely what earned you the suspicion of the police force.  Bitter as you are, you don’t intend to go down without a fight- these mafia scumbags are the perfect targets to vent your aggression.

Night 1 begins now!  Send in your night actions!

Night 1 ends Friday, 10/29 11 PM EST.



MOD NOTE:  My trip begins early AM on Saturday.  If the night needs to be extended for any reason, it will be extended to Monday.  Get those night actions in, and you can have all weekend to discuss D2.  My availability will be very limited on the weekend.

[Toaster]

Morning comes, and everyone gathers in the lobby.  A quick count reveals that KaminaSquirtle is not among you.  After a couple minutes waiting, you head to his room to check it out.  Someone kicks down the door, and you instantly see why he did not come.  He is face-down on the table where he had been sitting, two bullet wounds in his back.  He had been working on some kind of painting when he was shot- he must have been distracted.  The canvas is now just a red smear of blood.

Disturbed, you head back to the lobby.  Can a Mafia member be found today?  Only time will tell...


Day two begins now!

Day two ends Wednesday, 11/3 11 PM EST

You are Wilt Hankin, a Townsperson.

Red- the color of blood.  Much red has run through these streets lately, and your paintings have taken a darker mood as the town grows increasingly hostile and less trusting.  You try to catch the world in your art, and all you can capture is misery.  Your brother seemed to be oblivious to the misery- he was out enjoying himself every day... until he was one of those killed as a Mafioso.  You’re sure that’s why you’re here under suspicion, but there’s no connection- you had no idea he was up to no good.  Now you must prove to all that you had nothing to do with this atrocity, and help wash the stain from your family name.