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[Azure Sepulchre]

Yeah. I'm gonna hang today, concencrate on someone else. By lynching me, you'll be one step closer to LyLo.

Yeah, I think I can ignore you now. If you're content to die and let an actual scum lynch go, then you ain't town. If you hadn't said that but kept on fighting instead, I might've ended up believing you. Too bad, so sad. >.>

1, you're not defending him, are you?

Heh; cute soft attack you got there - it being especially funny that it's directed at the person who's initial argument you're trying to use. XD

Anyway, telling you how his posts came across to me ain't defending - it was a clarification on my position, necessary for bringing my opinion across. Just as you pointing out he seemed scummy to you was your own clarificaion. Perhaps he really is scum; perhaps he isn't. Regardless, I'm sure you are, so this conversation is moot.

Murphy, Kamina - time to get off the bench and press a little harder, guys. What's your opinion on the Ottofar/Elegy situation? Have you got any leads of your own, any scumtell's you've noticed? Or do both plan to stay on the sidelines? Pretty suspicious behaviour, that.

[Mindmaker]

The situation is going out of hand.
I really don't like the constellation around Elegy, however there isn't much I can do about it.

Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?

Unvote.
Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon, however Azure seems to know exactly what he is doing.
And so does Elegy.

[ragnarok97071]

In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.

[Elegy]

The situation is going out of hand.
I really don't like the constellation around Elegy, however there isn't much I can do about it.

And so does Elegy.

Huh?

Because I was attacked by someone acting scummy, and then voted for them I'm suddenly a mastermind?

This game is weird. No one has used a single scrap of evidence against me, and yet I'm seen as this "Constellation".

[KaminaSquirtle]

Murphy, Kamina - time to get off the bench and press a little harder, guys. What's your opinion on the Ottofar/Elegy situation? Have you got any leads of your own, any scumtell's you've noticed? Or do both plan to stay on the sidelines? Pretty suspicious behaviour, that.

You claim me to be on the bench and not ragnarok?  He's contibuted nothing to the town over the entire game, and has refused to respond to people calling this out.  Seems pretty scummy to me.

Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?

Azure has a good argument against Ottofar going.
But Azure, while pushing so hard against Ottofar, has completely ignored ragnarok's silence.  They may be the scum.  Why are you ignoring ragnarok's lack of contribution to the town, Azure?

[Azure Sepulchre]

You claim me to be on the bench and not ragnarok?  He's contibuted nothing to the town over the entire game, and has refused to respond to people calling this out.  Seems pretty scummy to me.

Azure has a good argument against Ottofar going.
But Azure, while pushing so hard against Ottofar, has completely ignored ragnarok's silence.  They may be the scum.  Why are you ignoring ragnarok's lack of contribution to the town, Azure?

I called out you two because you were the only two that weren't voting in the latest count. I'll admit I have been focusing too much on one person, though; I've missed most of what's been said, and what I have seen I've skimmed unless it pertained to my case against Otto.

As for ignoring ragnarok's apparent silence... well, umm... >.>

In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.

But I have my own questions about this, anyway, and my vote is secure against Otto, so I can scope out everyone else now before day ends.

On that note, enlighten me, ragnarok: if my attacks on Otto actually make sense to you, then why aren't you joining in? What else do you have that is worth pursuing? How do you intend to respond to the fairly large amount of pressure mounting against you from questions you've left unanswered and your lapses into silence? If you think I have a case against Otto, then what's your opinion of the case against Elegy?

Also, my favourite:

Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon, however Azure seems to know exactly what he is doing.
And so does Elegy.

What is this? Seriously, what the fuck is this? How do I even respond to this? 'How dare you try to lure scum into a trap, play fair like the rest of us sheep town'? Psh. >.>

I don't appreciate you lumping me in with Elegy, either. Had Otto used any kind of proper evidence to mount an attack on Elegy instead of the rubbish I coughed up, or - better yet - totally ignored me along with everyone else, then I would have stayed on Elegy under a fierce impression he actually was scum. A quick, apparently easy bandwagon is a difficult thing for scum to pass up on, so if I was ignored then it would've meant I'd picked out one of the scum as my target, and his buddy didn't want to risk a bandwagon on his pal day 1.

[Flintus10]

Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon

1. That would be a reason to find me suspicious yet you decided to FOS two other people

...annnnddd 2. If you read back you will realise I was the first person to vote for Ottofar and provide an actual case against him, explain to me how that is bandwagoning?

[Spade]

I was away for around a day again. (That's an answer to Otto's 'where are you?' post. It's too far back for me to quote.)

In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.

You're still not saying not saying anything useful, ragnarok. Do you actually have something good to say or maybe even a question?

Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?

I'm unsure. Of course it's possible none of the people voting for them is maf, but that's three people on one person.
My guess would be that one of them is a maf trying to lynch a townie or their scumbuddy.


Ottofar: Who do you think(if you think), of the people voting you, has the best or worst argument about it?

[Flintus10]

also Mindmaker what is your read on Ottofar?

[ragnarok97071]

I apologise for not posting much, got a lot of things going on right now, and in any case, I try not to put something up unless It is important. not a very good strategy for Mafia, I guess. anyway, I think that a vote at this point in the game would be founded more on random suspicion than any reasoned deduction of who is actually on the scumteam. Really, I think we'd be better off waiting untill we have some evidence to lynch anyone. right now, we have random guesswork, decently laid traps, and mob mentality to discern the scum. from this turns effects, we may be able to deduce, from who is killed, and what their suspicions were, who is likely to need lynching. on that note, I guess...
unvote

[Elegy]

I apologise for not posting much, got a lot of things going on right now, and in any case, I try not to put something up unless It is important. not a very good strategy for Mafia, I guess. anyway, I think that a vote at this point in the game would be founded more on random suspicion than any reasoned deduction of who is actually on the scumteam. Really, I think we'd be better off waiting untill we have some evidence to lynch anyone. right now, we have random guesswork, decently laid traps, and mob mentality to discern the scum. from this turns effects, we may be able to deduce, from who is killed, and what their suspicions were, who is likely to need lynching. on that note, I guess...
unvote

I guess it's pretty easy to see the game from this perspective if you're not used to playing it a few times. The thing is, out of all the people posting so far, one or two people are going to fuck up and do something scummy. Ottofar is that one person in our game. He attacked me for no reason other than to bandwagon with someone who wasn't actually attacking me at all, his defense was feeble (if it existed at all) and he has tried to (unsuccesfully) shift off a lot of suspicion from himself. Right now, he is the person who is acting the most scummy, that's why I am voting for him, and that's probably why others are, too (although I can't speak for them).

If we just go no-lynch today, what do we get? Well, for one, we don't get to see if Ottofar truly is scum or not (assuming he is lynched), and a random townie dies during the night. Had the situation been different, say if no one had made any scummy moves so far, I might agree with you, but that is not the case, and that's why I continue to vote for the person who I think is scum.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Azure, point me to a game, where I have answered more thoroughly

Fair point, then; so you're okay with making a habit of using a playing style that's detrimental to the town. Sure thing, bro.

You still haven't adequately explained why you tried to initially lynch Elegy (beyond using my own fabricated reasons), nor have you explained why you play in a completely different way from the method you recommended to Mindmaker. Nor why you still insist on lynching Elegy despite having nothing to go on. The fact that you actually tried to get him lynched on nothing more than a 'gut feeling' is just plain laughable.  Try harder, scum.

Yeah. I'm gonna hang today, concencrate on someone else. By lynching me, you'll be one step closer to LyLo.

I at first pushed him, with your argument. He reacted, and the reaction occurred for me as uncomfortable, and for you as annoyed¹. I then proceeded to push, and you revealed your gambit. This is where I find Elegy's posts gain more confidence, as he doesn't seem to get lynched today, and less people suspect him.

^{1, you're not defending him, are you?}

If he were scum, why would he lead such a hard push against you?  If you turn out to be town, then he would make himself highly suspect.  The only way I could see him being scum is if you were both scum, in which case lynching you would still be a good idea.

If Elegy were town though, his posts would still gain more confidence.  Being town doesn't make you exempt from lynching, and thus being nervous.  And honestly he just looked pissed off the entire time, which is understandable as multiple people were trying to lynch him for no real reason.

Azure's arguments are convincing and you have not given any kind of satisfactory counterargument.  And honestly even if you're town, we'll learn a lot from lynching you, Ottofar.

If we just go no-lynch today, what do we get? Well, for one, we don't get to see if Ottofar truly is scum or not (assuming he is lynched), and a random townie dies during the night. Had the situation been different, say if no one had made any scummy moves so far, I might agree with you, but that is not the case, and that's why I continue to vote for the person who I think is scum.

Exactly, the information gained from Ottofar's death will be invaluable.

[Mindmaker]

If you read back you will realise I was the first person to vote for Ottofar and provide an actual case against him, explain to me how that is bandwagoning?

With drawn in, I mean that the mafia did see a good opportunity in your vote and picked the same target.
As to your second question, I'll answer it in the evening, as I'll be heading to work soon.

[Murphy]

Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?

Justified, I think. I'm only reluctant to vote because it is always better to find my own reason than blindly follow someone else. In other words, I'm keeping an eye on him and waiting for more scumtells which I could spot myself and not just be told of them by others.

However, I fail to see any scummy behaviour from Elegy, yet Ottofar continues to press. If he would back off, he might actually get away with this, I think. If he's a mafia, he would surely realize that. Maybe he's not scum, he's just stupidly stubborn. If this was not day 1, I would say this sounds like cop to me. On the other hand, it is day 1...

I would vote if there wasn't much time left, but right now I can afford to clear things up a bit for myself, right?

[Murphy]

Ottofar, you seem to think that finding someone who's being voted for, then pressing on him until he panics and breaks is likely to yield scumtells. Did this tactic work for you when you were playing town in the past games?