As complicated as that sounds, with the inevitable entanglements when referring to groups, as mathel described pretty well.....
I didn't know that existed, and it seems kinda perfect. Once the pronouns flow naturally because you speak the language, you get some subconscious grasp how even if it might be a pronoun that typically refers to something male, it has a different quality to it, less distinctly gendered. Like in my headcanon I used the notion of innumbrable to convey that, but I allways knew that word was way off the mark.
So I say it sounds perfect, because presumably there is the room for that kind of nuance without it "interrupting the natural language flow as everybody got acquainted with", yet it comes out of the tradition of the language. Yes there is still vaguely male sounding pronouns to encompass all as soon as one biologically male enters the group (wait is it biologically? I don't know one word of czech to be fair... and also simply the question seems to be too philosophical to be bothered with) and that still give some a reason to complain... But I guess that's like half the fun of it
I'm very case by case basis:
German: Has the means to express the distinction but doesn't generally bother. Also "it" can be considered completetly tactless and degrading (understandably but like, pick your battles brooeeuaagh- bromerad (phew) but I am getting ahead of myself). In theory all the other pronouns and declinations etc that relate to the neutral form could be slipped into the language flow, as long as you avoid saying a blank "it"... But the simple act of implying "it" is still vaguely offensive. I get the argument and I know how it can be used offensively but if I were afflicted I think I'd fucking own "it", deal with it, I made that my own a long time ago, try to hurt me you will only reaffirm me kinda stuff. But I'm talking out of my ass because I certainly did not simulate a few houndred thousands sentences in my head to verify what I postulated... Anyway in germany they just went over to sticking -innen to everything. It works. It can
sound hilarious at times (when referring to ubermale professions like miner, and the innen makes it sound like it's a 100% women because you dont hear the "-"), and it's very corporate speak'ish but it works. As far as I'm aware there are no issues when referring to groups, it's allways the same pronoun. You can tell it stems from the male root but it doesn't feel gendered because it's allways "ihnen"
French: I don't think it works, I don't see how it would. Not to be an asshole but I had never heard of iel, and can only presume it's pronounce yell because that's what you get when you try to pronounce il and elle at the same time. Still starts with il tho
, but to be fair elle takes most room in that syllabe so it's kind of balanced. But would it be a caricature of the people trying to change language to feel like this is a minefield, and somebody is still gonna be offended anyway it starts with il, eventhough it works fairly well but so anyway what is the point.
*processing* (tryna come up with good examples you just gave me a new word)
ok so it would seem the only issue actually is wether to use "é" or "ée" in some cases... I mean you would simplify with "é" then, but then it's declined in a male fashion again
. But if that's really the only issue well, it doesn't transfer to spoken language so that's good.
Not aware of any other efforts to change gendered language in french, idk, I just don't see it working out because I got a sense that I wouldn't come up with the right way to write it intuitively, french is just too arbitrary from the get go, and I feel like it's futile to try and change that, accept it with it's historical debts or leave it rot in a corner I say.
And english well this one is the absolute cherry on top: You feel like I quote
I find the discussion about "inclusive language" is also very US culture and English-language specific...
That seems a bit lacking in perspective but I can see where this comes from. The way I would characterise that sentiment is that nowhere this debate is more heated than in the english-speaking sphere. And that's plain non-sense, where is even the issue? English allmost never conveys gender and what's more you didn't even have to invent anything, "they" is there, perfectly functional, simple and intuitive.
So I said case by case basis, but I 'm still gonna talk out of my ass again trying to sum it up: if it works, it works, and people who refuse to use it are just petulant assholes... on the other hand if you try to twist language in a bretzel that just seems so futile to me. If it doesn't spontaneously spring forth out of the human intuition for syntaxe, it's like battling the elements. All I can observe is this trend for languages to gradually smooth out the older bricks, a bit like errosion. Silent letters stop appearing in the common form to write things, there have been orthographic reforms that simplfiy a bunch of stuff etc. To stay in the erosion metaphore it seems like a hell of work to sculpt that little extrusion into otherwise smooth riverstones every year, every school class, to affirm one's identity. I mean people do them, but not a battle I'd pick.
So idk I won't go against the canon on purpose, I see no reason to not try to be nice to transpeople but at the same time I am somewhat confused. Ok ok language creates thought and it omitting you existence is not nice, but if things are as bad as you say you got more urgent issues, not to be dismissive, but you do. That's one point of confusion the other is: I thought all of this was to give intersex people a room in society, but realize more and more that wasn't it, it's about identity not biology... and I just... I don't know... I just don't take my identity that seriously? Ever since that time I sat between two girls (I was pretty zoned out) and one of them who had a crush on me and was frustrated with my ineptitude to take it further made sure I heard her say to her friend that I no personality. And like, I embrace that shit. First of all it's propesterous notion because even the most boring personality is in fact a personality, but also like, even if that were true I feel like I allready got my hands full with what little I have so thanks but no thanks. Personality, identity... I'm sure some would care to differentiate, I don't, I feel bored just thinking about it.
Author
Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O (Read 14560717 times)