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[NullForceOmega]

Fairly common misunderstanding turned argument.

[Maximum Spin]

You may feel calm but the words you are posting can be easily construed as an attack.  I am only suggesting that you step back from this particular argument and maybe take a break for a bit, there isn't a good reason to turn this into a full-fledged battle.

Trust me, I don't intend to indulge anyone who feels like battling, but from my perspective this isn't even an argument. It's just a conversation. And, honestly, the previous conversation is over now anyway, so now it's a conversation, mainly between me and you, about that conversation. I still don't really understand what "stepping back" is meant to accomplish?

[Lord Shonus]

Hey Lord Shonus, may I ask if you agree forks go in mouths? Based on your prior post do you also not like putting forks in your mouth after somebody else put one in theirs?

he's not putting the same fork in his mouth
it's a different fork, same pan

As far as I am concerned, taking a fork out of your mouth and sticking it in my food is exactly the same as taking a fork out of your mouth and shoving it into mine. It is an act vile beyond belief.

[Maximum Spin]

As far as I am concerned, taking a fork out of your mouth and sticking it in my food is exactly the same as taking a fork out of your mouth and shoving it into mine. It is an act vile beyond belief.

I totally agree with that, as previously established.

[Lord Shonus]

As far as I am concerned, taking a fork out of your mouth and sticking it in my food is exactly the same as taking a fork out of your mouth and shoving it into mine. It is an act vile beyond belief.

I totally agree with that, as previously established.

And yet you seem to think that I have no right to be pissed off at people insisting that regularly doing just that is no big deal. You also act as if "complying with your request would require the tiniest bit of effort on my part" is sound reason to declare any request irrational and worthy of a derisive dismissal.

[Tack]

Yeah I have a family member with the same... I guess let's go broad-spectrum and call it germophobia?
Point being, they have a right to not eat the stuff. I'm the person who'll dip the wooden spoon into a sauce or stew, taste it, and then put the spoon right back in the simmering liquid, but I certainly don't do that if I'm cooking for said sibling.

I think that's mainly a function of 'who is responsible for providing the feed'. He probably wouldn't have been able to get away with such foibles if we were all still in the same house, simply because the way Mum has done stuff for 20 years isn't going to change so readily.


Edit: I think the issue is more of a slippery slope fallacy. 'Don't put your fork in my food' is fine, but 'don't mention men around me' is less reasonable, if maybe understandable. From there then there's surely some things which are actually fully illogical which no reasonable person should be expected to tiptoe around.

[Lord Shonus]

Yeah I have a family member with the same... I guess let's go broad-spectrum and call it germophobia?
Point being, they have a right to not eat the stuff. I'm the person who'll dip the wooden spoon into a sauce or stew, taste it, and then put the spoon right back in the simmering liquid, but I certainly don't do that if I'm cooking for said sibling.

It isn't just things like that. If, for example, we have a very large bowl of salsa on the table, my Ma will refuse to take the serving spoon and transfer it to the small bowls set out for that exact purpose. Instead, she will use said serving spoon as an eating spoon to gobble the salsa right out of the bowl. Then get pissed when it has to be thrown out because I refuse to touch it afterward.

[Maximum Spin]

Yeah I have a family member with the same... I guess let's go broad-spectrum and call it germophobia?
Point being, they have a right to not eat the stuff. I'm the person who'll dip the wooden spoon into a sauce or stew, taste it, and then put the spoon right back in the simmering liquid, but I certainly don't do that if I'm cooking for said sibling.

I think that's mainly a function of 'who is responsible for providing the feed'. He probably wouldn't have been able to get away with such foibles if we were all still in the same house, simply because the way Mum has done stuff for 20 years isn't going to change so readily.

Yes, this is exactly my perspective. I'm one of those people, although I'm not a germophobe — honestly, you could autoclave a spoon someone else had used and it would still gross me out, it's not about germs but about some vaguely-defined lizard-brain feeling of contamination — but I just... prepare my own food, and don't get mad at other people for doing things that don't bother them. It's basic charity.

It isn't just things like that. If, for example, we have a very large bowl of salsa on the table, my Ma will refuse to take the serving spoon and transfer it to the small bowls set out for that exact purpose. Instead, she will use said serving spoon as an eating spoon to gobble the salsa right out of the bowl. Then get pissed when it has to be thrown out because I refuse to touch it afterward.

That's gross, but why are you still eating with these people? And, well, having to throw stuff out is also an understandable thing to be upset over, and I'd counsel both of you to calm down. There doesn't need to be anger.

And I can assure you from my personal experience that there are many people who don't understand the concept of a serving spoon, including some who will tell you that it's classist. This isn't a character flaw so much as just a really disgusting, unfortunate way of being that we all have to learn to accept. From a separate table.

ETA: let me add:

And yet you seem to think that I have no right to be pissed off at people insisting that regularly doing just that is no big deal. You also act as if "complying with your request would require the tiniest bit of effort on my part" is sound reason to declare any request irrational and worthy of a derisive dismissal.

I don't think anyone ever has a right to be pissed off.
Sure, sometimes it happens whether you want it to or not, but it's really something we should all try to get past.
(And it doesn't even have to require effort! I approve of dismissing any and all requests for any reason, because requests are supererogatory.)

[Lord Shonus]

That's gross, but why are you still eating with these people?

Because when I lived elsewhere, my parents were unable to pay their bills and nearly lost their house, perhaps?  We get on well enough otherwise, it is just one really disgusting habit they refuse to give up.

[Maximum Spin]

That's gross, but why are you still eating with these people?

Because when I lived elsewhere, my parents were unable to pay their bills and nearly lost their house, perhaps?  We get on well enough otherwise, it is just one really disgusting habit they refuse to give up.

But could you prepare your food separately? It sounds like 'banquet'-type meals are just not right for you, like they aren't for me.

[Lord Shonus]

That's gross, but why are you still eating with these people?

Because when I lived elsewhere, my parents were unable to pay their bills and nearly lost their house, perhaps?  We get on well enough otherwise, it is just one really disgusting habit they refuse to give up.

But could you prepare your food separately? It sounds like 'banquet'-type meals are just not right for you, like they aren't for me.

That is quite impractical for many reasons, nor do I think "we're living in your house, using your utilities, but you have to make your own food because we have no respect for your wishes" is a reasonable attitude.

[Maximum Spin]

Shrug, the "as long as you live under my roof you'll follow my rules!" card is also a valid one, albeit not necessarily my preference. It sounds like you're not really willing to enforce the demand, though. In that case there may well not be much more that you can do than persistent, calm, even-toned badgering, without distracting from the message by allowing yourself to get angry... if you're lucky they might even learn, slowly. I hope it works out.

[Yoink]

Sounds like you're pinning all the characteristics of a class you don't like on one random individual. Maybe he was just having a horrible day and ended up feeling awful about it. Maybe he grew up in and still lives in poverty, relative or abject.

Don't judge someone based on fifteen seconds of mostly non-verbal communication. It's a terrible thing to do, deciding that since they look like a group you hate they must be evil.

This is from a ways back, but yeah... always consider carefully before making one of those sweeping, enraged judgements, because once you've voiced such thoughts you can't take them back and absolutely cannot budge in your opinion. Whatever arguments others bring to the discussion, the only suitable response you can take is to grow angrier.   
So, y'know. Make sure you're sure. *shrug*   

[Greiger]

Spoiler: rant (click to show/hide)

CEO of the company (a large country wide company) visited my workplace recently.  Things went well from what I was told.  We are in the top 10% of best performing stores.

They Lied.  My boss is being forced to resign by the end of the week. We are indeed top 10%, but supposedly something my boss said about the store's stats conflicted with what the CEO was telling a shareholder, so he's gone.  There is no other store manager in place nor is there reasonable chance of there being one until, I'm told in an email "Q1 of 2019". 

The Assistant Manager quit about a month ago, instead of being fired because she never did the tasks assigned to her, openly talked down to both employees AND customers, and got caught in many many lies including lying about outright sabotage her employees work.  We also still don't have a replacement assistant manager.  We didn't get a timeframe for that, but the jist was along the lines of 'not anytime soon if at all'.

That makes me and one other person the only two able to open and close the store so 7 days a week for both of us.  As the other has seniority she's acting Store Manager.  She asked to be promoted to Assistant manager at least, and they told her that they don't think she is ready for management duties.  Despite her running the store as the store manager when the ASM quit unexpectedly for a few weeks(it was the real store manager's vacation).  And literally being told that she's going to be acting store manager again until at least next year.

If things stay as they are, she is quitting friday, I don't blame her.  She leaves I'm the only person with any authority left in the store, making me have to stay in the store every day 8AM til 11PM 7 days a week until a nebulous time starting sometime next year.  I do not know for sure at this time but I will likely walk within a couple days of doing that myself.  As I'm not being paid a quarter over minimum wage to do store manager duties and work crazy hours.

tl:dr How to big businesses keep making money when they are clearly mismanaged so badly?

[Tack]

People like you and your co-worker throw your weight around and get leveraged into positions of tenuous authority, and they’re over a barrel so they do it.

... sometimes.