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[Frumple]

Most folks seem to fairly sincerely believe the experience of being drunk is pleasant? So when someone dislikes it, the first thought is somewhere in the region of, "Well, if person doesn't like <enjoyable thing> then their view must be because a bad experience or two, otherwise enjoyable thing wouldn't be enjoyable."

You get similar responses towards folks that just don't enjoy having sex, or are fairly lukewarm towards it. I've personally seen similar trying to get the point across that I really just don't sodding like going fast in a vehicle, for reasons that have only so much to do with how much I (don't) enjoy driving.

Though there's MSH's point, too. Nonexistent gods know there's probably some other ones.

[Rolan7]

@Putnam
Probably because The Violent Alcoholic is such a common trope in our culture, and also in real life.
If someone hates alcohol, then it's likely because they knew someone who did awful things under the influence.
Or maybe the "bad experience" they mean is that *you* tried alcohol once and it didn't go well.  I mean, fair enough - my first (serious) experience put me off alcohol for over 2 years.

Sounds like people are assuming you have an empirical reason for your stance.  That seems kinda flattering, though frustrating too.

Because just about everybody has had a bad experience with some drunk asshole, and habitual drinkers often feel self-conscious that they're a drunk asshole without knowing it.

This too.

[redwallzyl]

Also many cultures especially American culture in my experience kind of tend to assume that everyone likes drinking and drinks even though that's not at all statistically true. So when some one who dosen't meets someone who thinks everyone does it gets really annoying for the non drinker and confusing for the drinker.

[Putnam]

Sounds like people are assuming you have an empirical reason for your stance.  That seems kinda flattering, though frustrating too.

I mean, when you put it that way it sort of goes back to the presumption that empiricism requires personal experience, which is something that I, uh, really get annoyed by, so that might actually be why that particular debate point rankles on me.

[Greiger]

I don't like drinking just because I had like 1/4th of a longneck on my 21st birthday and thought 'Wow is this all the hype is about? I'd rather have water'.

I have on occasion gone 'out drinking' with friends but I didn't drink any alcohol.  Sadly the bars around here seem to have a pretty shitty soda selection and I couldn't go out even once without somebody in that group trying to get me to drink a beer.  Once they even tried switching my drink which very nearly got me to leave their asses there. (I was always the designated driver, for obvious reasons).  I haven't gone out in at least 5 or 6 years now.

[SalmonGod]

I'm with you on this, Putnam.  I've never had anyone ask me if it's because of a bad experience, but the vast majority are shocked when they first learn this about me.  A good chunk become obsessed with the idea of getting me to drink alcohol and like it.  And I've encountered a couple people whose reactions indicated that learning I don't drink was the most mind-blowing concept they'd ever encountered in their entire lives.  One time when alcohol came up in a meeting at work and I said I don't like it, this guy went totally bug-eyed, dropped his mouth wide eyed open, and exclaimed almost shouting "YOU DON'T LIKE ALCOHOL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" in front of everyone... after which he was dead silent, staring off into space wide-eyed for the rest of the meeting like he was struggling to grasp this idea.  I was clearly the first person he'd ever met in his entire life to admit to this.

But usually I don't have much trouble explaining to someone who doesn't get it... truth is the shit tastes like ear wax dissolved in gasoline, and that's not an exaggeration.  When I get the typical line about "acquired taste", next step is I don't understand the appeal of getting drunk - doing a bunch of stupid shit you'll regret later, puking all over the place, then feeling horrible the next morning?  Why is this taste worth acquiring again?  Best anyone's been able to respond to that is some stuff about useful social lubrication if you don't overdo it and/or alcohol being a vital component of cultural history.  Which... ok... acknowledged.  But that's not vital enough to my well-being to force myself through the most offensive taste I've ever encountered in my entire life.

[JoshuaFH]

I'm with you on this, Putnam.  I've never had anyone ask me if it's because of a bad experience, but the vast majority are shocked when they first learn this about me.  A good chunk become obsessed with the idea of getting me to drink alcohol and like it.  And I've encountered a couple people whose reactions indicated that learning I don't drink was the most mind-blowing concept they'd ever encountered in their entire lives.  One time when alcohol came up in a meeting at work and I said I don't like it, this guy went totally bug-eyed, dropped his mouth wide eyed open, and exclaimed almost shouting "YOU DON'T LIKE ALCOHOL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" in front of everyone... after which he was dead silent, staring off into space wide-eyed for the rest of the meeting like he was struggling to grasp this idea.  I was clearly the first person he'd ever met in his entire life to admit to this.

But usually I don't have much trouble explaining to someone who doesn't get it... truth is the shit tastes like ear wax dissolved in gasoline, and that's not an exaggeration.  When I get the typical line about "acquired taste", next step is I don't understand the appeal of getting drunk - doing a bunch of stupid shit you'll regret later, puking all over the place, then feeling horrible the next morning?  Why is this taste worth acquiring again?  Best anyone's been able to respond to that is some stuff about useful social lubrication if you don't overdo it and/or alcohol being a vital component of cultural history.  Which... ok... acknowledged.  But that's not vital enough to my well-being to force myself through the most offensive taste I've ever encountered in my entire life.

My pet theory is it being a culturally accepted collective guilt. They know for a fact that they're doing something that is only vaguely defensible, and the only way to convince yourself that your actions are excusable is to get others who are complicit in your own sin.

[SalmonGod]

I think it's just boredom.  Most people don't seem capable of figuring out what to do with themselves on their own time, if it's not gathering up into groups and making themselves too stupid to know what boredom is.  Inspiration, sadly, seems to be a rare thing.  Seriously at least 60% of the people that I try to discuss the need to let go of traditional employment models as the basis of society because of automation and such respond with fear and anger because "What am I supposed to do with all that time?!  Life will be boring and pointless!"  I ask what they do when they're not at work or some other form of adulting.  The answer is usually getting drunk and watching sports.  The idea of having anything better to do with one's free time is apparently a bit much for too many.

It's one of those subjects that really shows the cracks in my positive humanism.

[redwallzyl]

I think it's just boredom.  Most people don't seem capable of figuring out what to do with themselves on their own time, if it's not gathering up into groups and making themselves too stupid to know what boredom is.  Inspiration, sadly, seems to be a rare thing.  Seriously at least 60% of the people that I try to discuss the need to let go of traditional employment models as the basis of society because of automation and such respond with fear and anger because "What am I supposed to do with all that time?!  Life will be boring and pointless!"  I ask what they do when they're not at work or some other form of adulting.  The answer is usually getting drunk and watching sports.  The idea of having anything better to do with one's free time is apparently a bit much for too many.

It's one of those subjects that really shows the cracks in my positive humanism.

I believe the solution to the problem of such things is culture. Currently it is almost totally centered around work as identity with that being the focus of life. We need to change that to something else if we are to have a successful future.

[Yoink]

Ugh, I hate teetotallers. 😅

[redwallzyl]

Ugh, I hate teetotallers. 😅

Just think of all the money we save by not buying expensive alcohol.

[overseer05-15]

@putnam
I thought you had a bad experience with alcohol because of your impressively heartfelt loathing of it. Like I can understand not liking it w/o a bad experience, but you really seem to loathe it.

@redwallxyz
wheres your ferrari

[Frumple]

Just think of all the money we save by not buying expensive alcohol.

... for what it's worth, I don't think I've met many people that claim to hate teetotallers that buy much (or any) expensive alcohol to begin with. Folks with the taste for expensive stuff seem to tend to have inculcated behaviors that at least preclude admitting such an outlook.

'Course, even the cheap stuff's money you could spend on something else, but eh.

[SalmonGod]

@redwallxyz
wheres your ferrari

I'm a millennial homeowner.  That is equivalent to Ferrari ownership for previous generations 

But seriously I probably wouldn't be if I were a drinker.

[Egan_BW]

Opinions!

Set a limit for yourself before you start. Same thing as gambling, really.
Get some water and food to consume along with it.
Drink in a reasonably safe place. Preferably with friends around.
Stuff tastes somewhere between corrosive and like something good. Like soda but without the excessive sugar and the carbonation. Humans like putting slightly painful things in our mouths.
The mental effects seem useful at low levels, then sharply falls off in usefulness until you're unconscious.
At some point alcohol was pretty important to starting this big weird civilization thing. It's probably the simplest recreational drug to make, which would explain why it's so important in our culture.
I won't judge anyone who won't touch it, wither because it tastes bad or because it messes with your brain. I might end up judging people who drink so much they totally lose control, sing loudly, puke, fall asleep, and wake up with a horrible headache and start complaining about it as if there were nothing they could do to prevent this. Sorry.

It's not legal to drink under the age of 21 where I am, and I'm 20, so I don't. I've had sips of other people's drinks to get an idea of the taste, but never had a whole cup. This means I obviously don't have much personal experience here. I'm kinda interested to find out what effect alcohol has on me, but I really don't fancy the idea of having more than a cup or two.