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[birdy51]

I am probably a bit behind on the time when it comes to pronouns. I'd prefer just be prompted on what the individual's preference is and go from their in trying to abide by their wishes.

[Maximum Spin]

Does it, though? Language changes are quite common throughout history.

It's so far from that simple that I couldn't even begin to explain efficiently. But yes, in sum, yes, these social projects are always doomed.

[EnigmaticHat]

...so when is the new slur for catholic immigrants going to be invented?

(edited to be more relevant to the point at hand)

[hector13]

You sure this is the thread you meant to post on?

I think he was just importing the joke from there.

Anyway, I prefer to avoid this issue by just using "sex" exclusively, most of the time. If people want to whine about that that's their problem.

Well, sex is biological, so unless you happen to know which bits they have, you could be using it wrong.

And if you do know everyone's genitalia... well, perhaps you have a problem.

Does it, though? Language changes are quite common throughout history.

It's so far from that simple that I couldn't even begin to explain efficiently. But yes, in sum, yes, these social projects are always doomed.

Which is why the status quo has been maintained since the dawn of civilisation. /the sarcasm is crushing

[Maximum Spin]

I wasn't aware that that movement involved any effort to change the colloquial definitions of "women", "right", or "vote"?

[EnigmaticHat]

Yeah I realized that about when I hit post.  Edited it to be more relevant.

[Maximum Spin]

That point actually isn't relevant either. It's amazing how confident people always seem to be that they know what I'm talking about more than me.

But, to treat your post on its own terms instead of as part of the ongoing narrative, I think "wetback" is currently popular there.

[EnigmaticHat]

Do you have an example of the pendulum swinging back?

[Maximum Spin]

At this point, I don't think you even know what pendulum I'm talking about. You seem to think I'm talking about societal changes reversing, or something. Which does happen - see eg. the entire Islamic world today - but is much more complex and has nothing to do with anything.

[hector13]

Perhaps you could explain it, then.

[Maximum Spin]

Also language evolves a shit ton. Unless transphobia makes a huge comeback, I don't see how this could be changed back simply.

In the vast majority of the (English-speaking) world, there hasn't been a change to change back, is the thing. Of course, there's nothing transphobic about the word "gender" having a specific definition, but that's beside the point. Every so often, activists and prescriptivists of various stripes try to convince people that the way they've been using a word for decades is now wrong, and it never works.

[Maximum Spin]

It's actually pretty closely connected to transphobia, since those people are the mainly the ones who insist on gender and sex meaning the same thing, because that way there is no word for not being the gender you were vorn as.

That's nonsense. The word "transgender" wouldn't cease to exist. The people for whom gender and sex mean the same thing just have a different dialect.

And also, I'm not talking about English specifically.

I'm not either, this phenomenon applies to all languages, but it would have been strange to have allowed my statement about the English word 'gender' to apply to "most of the world" when most of the world doesn't use that particular word.

[Maximum Spin]

Yes, I'm sure there are many places where that's true. That doesn't make one dialect more "correct", however, and when people try to apply pressure to expand that bubble outward it tends to have the opposite effect.

[EnigmaticHat]

Also language evolves a shit ton. Unless transphobia makes a huge comeback, I don't see how this could be changed back simply.

In the vast majority of the (English-speaking) world, there hasn't been a change to change back, is the thing. Of course, there's nothing transphobic about the word "gender" having a specific definition, but that's beside the point. Every so often, activists and prescriptivists of various stripes try to convince people that the way they've been using a word for decades is now wrong, and it never works.

Do you have a specific example of this happening?

Also if a definition of gender excludes transwomen from being women or transmen from being men, its transphobic.  That's kind of like saying "there's nothing racist about the definition of human having a specific definition."  Sure, there's nothing innately racist about having a definition, but some definitions would be racist none-the-less.

[hector13]

Yes, I'm sure there are many places where that's true. That doesn't make one dialect more "correct", however, and when people try to apply pressure to expand that bubble outward it tends to have the opposite effect.

Could you explain the bolded part, please? It doesn't make sense.