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[Nahere]

Oh, of course not. It was more so that they ARE valuable commodities, but in the future we may have created a machine that can do our tasks better. Thus making us obsolete.

Now I can see how that would have been offensive, to think of people that have suffered and died and to say that they are pointless is quite offensive.

You say that making a machine that can do our tasks better would make us obsolete, but that only makes sense if our purpose is to work, and nothing more. If our purpose, self-assigned or otherwise, collective or individual, is not fulfilled, then we cannot ever be obsolete.

[NJW2000]

Can make us economically obsolete, which in the capitalist system, is a worry.

[Arx]

yeah, all those composers are skilless hacks, music is only music when performed, composition is literally nothing

I think you'll find that nobody was saying that. Just that music, performed by a human with interpretation and/or character, is better than music, performed mechanically perfect by a computer. The composer doesn't come into it. I have great respect for composers!

[hops]

The funny thing is that the sort of music that Putnam likes are performed by machines.

[King Kitteh]

Here's an interesting video about how people will become economically obsolete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

It's coming. There's no denying that, people will one day be obsolete. What then? I sure hope not my horrible dystopia, but it's a possibility 

[Arx]

The funny thing is that the sort of music that Putnam likes are performed by machines.

Preeeetty sure Putnam plays the guitar, and I have seen him express admiration for music played by people.

Synth/electronic music is an interesting case, because it can't really be played by a human. I'd special case it there, which is a fair cop.

[Radio Controlled]

Relevant: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140808-music-like-never-heard-before

When Peter Russell first heard the unusual music, he was pleasantly surprised. It was a “delightful piece of chamber music”, he wrote, reminiscent of French pieces written in the early 20th Century. “After repeated hearings, I came to like it.”
What Russell, a musicologist, didn’t know was that the score titled Hello World had actually been composed much more recently by a computer called Iamus. Other listeners in blind tests have been similarly fooled.

[Orange Wizard]

Here's an interesting video about how people will become economically obsolete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Economic obsolescence is not obsolescence.

[King Kitteh]

Here's an interesting video about how people will become economically obsolete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Economic obsolescence is not obsolescence.

That's why I said economic obsolescence. And it still has massive ramifications in our capitalist society. People will become unemployable.

[Emma]

Here's an interesting video about how people will become economically obsolete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Economic obsolescence is not obsolescence.

That's why I said economic obsolescence. And it still has massive ramifications in our capitalist society. People will become unemployable.

Aren't a lot of people already unemployable? And anyway, if humans do become economically obsolete and, theoretically, everyone becomes unemployable then I've got a feeling that jobs will become far less important.

yeah, all those composers are skilless hacks, music is only music when performed, composition is literally nothing

That wasn't what I meant. Composition is still a very, if not the most, important part of music. All we're saying is that it can become better when played by a person and not a machine.

[Sonlirain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPuU8Pq9D3Q

I blame egyptian robot loominatey.

[Orange Wizard]

That's why I said economic obsolescence. And it still has massive ramifications in our capitalist society. People will become unemployable.

So, only in countries that don't support unemployed people. Got it.

Aren't a lot of people already unemployable? And anyway, if humans do become economically obsolete and, theoretically, everyone becomes unemployable then I've got a feeling that jobs will become far less important.

Yeah even in fuckawful American capitalism people can still get unemployment benefits. Honestly I can't see any properly democratic country moving to a primarily automated economy without also moving to support people.

[Frumple]

I think you'll find that nobody was saying that. Just that music, performed by a human with interpretation and/or character, is better than music, performed mechanically perfect by a computer.

... this is just strange, to me. Whole discussion that's been along these lines has been. Are all of you really so unaware to the fact that a computer can be made to perform imperfectly? Usually with a fair bit of ease. Setting something up so minor variations (which is, y'know, all that interpretation and/or character is, mechanically) are introduced into playback is... not some kind of eldritch knowledge from beyond the stars. It's literally just an extra bit of code or a particularly designed bit of hardware. Games do it all the bloody time; the entire field of procedural generation is based around that exact concept. Dwarf Fortress is an example of some of the methodologies involved!

Don't think we're at the point we've got the software/hardware that can take a look at a crowd and improvise on the fly based on their reactions yet, no, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we do before I'll start being statistically likely to die of old age related complications. Y'all are seriously pigeonholing the technical capabilities of artificial music production and the (few) likely limitations on its future development.

[Arx]

Relevant: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140808-music-like-never-heard-before

When Peter Russell first heard the unusual music, he was pleasantly surprised. It was a “delightful piece of chamber music”, he wrote, reminiscent of French pieces written in the early 20th Century. “After repeated hearings, I came to like it.”
What Russell, a musicologist, didn’t know was that the score titled Hello World had actually been composed much more recently by a computer called Iamus. Other listeners in blind tests have been similarly fooled.

Interesting. It's pretty convincing, but if you ask me the style of the early 20th is probably the easiest to emulate by AI - not that that isn't impressive!

[Harry Baldman]

Economic obsolescence is not obsolescence.

Economic significance is a safeguard for actual significance, though. If you're economically obsolete, that removes the fundamental safety net of "but you need me" that holds back a hypothetical immoral capitalist overlord from converting you from a revenue source to a protein source. And if we assume maximum malice (the core assumption of democracy and capitalism alike), that bodes ill for your long-term survival.

Or that's the argument, at least. I'd expect populistic policies will let society as we know it weather the storm. Not like everything will suddenly turn into an automated Wild West of futuristic economics. Probably will be a gradual process.