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[ChairmanPoo]

Reading other thread I had a sudden vision which told me who will be the next mute/ban in the following days....

[hector13]

Reading other thread I had a sudden vision which told me who will be the next mute/ban in the following days....

Link? Probably best PM'd so as not to get shot yersel'...

[Zangi]

Backroad driving.  People driving in the middle of the road in low visibility-range areas... and kinda fast too.  I always drive hugging the sides, though I do drive fast too.

Also, when people hit a curve going too fast, expecting there to be no car coming along on the other side of the road.  'You were planning to use the whole road weren't you?'

[ChairmanPoo]

Reading other thread I had a sudden vision which told me who will be the next mute/ban in the following days....

Link? Probably best PM'd so as not to get shot yersel'...

Nonono, I'm just an observer. Want to see if my prediction is right.

[Tawa]

Which reminds me that for once my hunch about somebody was completely right. I thought that allcaps guy seemed way too familiar with lowerboard culture for a "noob".

I wonder who he was a sockpuppet of? Based on the lack of modlog entries, I'm guessing that maybe Trollheiming/Gervassen came back.

[Rolan7]

Grits are just great, though.  Best thing to come out of the American Civil War.

hang on, best food, or best thing of any kind?

Oh.  Shit, uh.
I don't stand by that statement
Also I was brought up with the understanding that the civil war was more about state's rights than about slavery.  Though obviously the issues were very connected, and uh...
My bad, whoops

[Neonivek]

I am starting to think my old whining about feeling like the forum villain was actually based on something tangible rather then just response to my incredibly negativity and depression aggravating it.

It is kind of flat out weird now that I am not in that state of mind to experience it... it also mildly cheeses me of because Neonivek classic didn't need that guff.

[TheBiggerFish]

@Rolan:That's pretty much flat-out wrong, the Civil War was entirely slavery-motivated.

States' rights was the modern justification.

[Graknorke]

Reading other thread I had a sudden vision which told me who will be the next mute/ban in the following days....

Link? Probably best PM'd so as not to get shot yersel'...

Nonono, I'm just an observer. Want to see if my prediction is right.

The point is that if you tell someone else they can verify whether or not you predicted right.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Grits are just great, though.  Best thing to come out of the American Civil War.

There is no factual ambiguity related to this statement.

[Rolan7]

@Rolan:That's pretty much flat-out wrong, the Civil War was entirely slavery-motivated.

States' rights was the modern justification.

It's really not that simple, though.  I could say "It was about the states' rights to run their economy and citizenship", but even that would be simplifying it.

As I learned it, the southern states were in the wrong on slavery.  And that slavery allowed them to harvest large quantities of raw materials, which they could ship to the northern industrial states or to industrial nations like Britain - except that faced harsh tariffs if they tried to ship overseas.  They were forced to deal with the northern states, which took full advantage of the profitable situation.

At the same time, the northern states (who had less, though certainly not *no* use of slaves) started getting preachy and demanding that the southern states emancipate.  This was a devastating idea, and one not supported by the southern voters (particularly when they got extra votes from their owned slaves).  "No, we'll manage our own business thank you very much."

This lead to an *inevitable* conflict, which Lincoln inherited and tried to continue to delay.  But despite his efforts to maintain the status quo, things came to a head.

Long story short:  The USA pressed a claim on the southern states that I don't recognize.  And won.  But here's where things get way better than expected.  Not only did the northern states abolish slavery, they were also magnanimous in victory.  They helped the southern states rebuild our economy not to rely on slavery (technically.  Tenant farmers and wage-slaves are a bit better though).  The secessionist politicians, instead of being executed as traitors, were allowed to rejoin the USA and had fairly mediocre political careers.

The USA unjustly forced the southern states to become more progressive and it actually worked.  Because they used a soft hand, and because the common folk of the South weren't that attached to slavery anyway (the institution mainly benefited the rich).  It all worked out well, even if the casus belli was crap.

Sherman should rot in hell for what he did.  Lee should go down in history for refusing to lead a bloody guerilla campaign.
Lincoln was not some shining paladin, he was a politician who kept his country in one piece.

[Flying Dice]

@Rolan:That's pretty much flat-out wrong, the Civil War was entirely slavery-motivated.

States' rights was the modern justification.

Not quite. It was about slavery, but it wasn't about slavery, if you take my drift. Barring the abolitionists, nobody really gave two shits about the slaves. Lincoln only really came around to that late in the game, when it made for a good propaganda piece. Maybe people actually believed it, too.

The Civil War was about slavery in the sense that it was about economics and industry. The early 19th century saw heavy industrialization in the North (thanks in large part to the introduction of the steam engine), and a doubling-down on cotton in the South. Industrial centers require large numbers of workers, which require large amounts of food--for the U.S. of the time, that meant beef, wheat, and corn. Cotton is very well-suited to low-cost low-tech manual labor (i.e. slavery); those are not.

To the South, the Western territories were new land that could be used to expand the growth of their key cash crops. To the North, they were an untouched breadbasket that could feed their factories. Thus, two distinct economic and social systems came into direct conflict over land which both saw as essential to their growth and economic viability.

The Civil War was fought over slavery, but the idea that the Civil War was fought over the ethical problems of slavery is a modern creation, an utter whitewashing of reality. Very few non-slaves in the U.S. genuinely cared about the slaves before or during the war, and it was only toward the tail end that that angle was explored as partial justification for what was essentially the northern half of the Union settling an internal economic conflict through force of arms. Not to say that the Federalists were in the wrong.

So yes, the Civil War was about states' rights, just as much as it was about slavery. The problem is that when people say that it was about one or the other, they're imposing their own perspective regarding what that means. So you've got people on the left with their delusions that it was a war for social justice and freedom, people on the right with their delusions that it was about the right of people and states to choose their own path, and neither of them are correct. The Civil War was about conflicting economic and social orders which were unable to reconcile peacefully.

[TheBiggerFish]

#TheMoreYouKnow.

Thanks FD.  I did not know that.

[Akura]

My mother lost her keys, because she took them out of the ignition while the engine was running to go into a convenience store, then was all the way to pick me up from work before noticing. Turns out they were on the backseat floor somewhere. Anyway, while exiting where I work, there's a large intersection where the side going in to where I work can go straight but the side leaving cannot. A lot of people go straight anyway, as it's a shortcut to a highway out of there. As we were turning, a few cars in front of us go straight, but my mother does not, saying "I'll follow the law". And she says this with an open beer can right in plain sight in the cup holder.

She's also trying to say that I'm not allowed to eat meat for the rest of the week, apparently they added "mourning Thursday" to Good Friday and Easter. She caught me rolling my eyes at that, too.

[TheBiggerFish]

Well there is Holy Thursday, but no, there's not an obligation to fast AFAIK if you're Christian?