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[LordPorkins]

My point exactly

[NJW2000]

Well in that case, of course, if they clearly denoted that the fetus had been developing in the womb for more than 26 weeks, the pro-choicers have no business at all worrying about the message got across.

[BlackFlyme]

Those weren't pro-choicers, though. They were pro-abortionists.

[NJW2000]

From a quick google, I'm having a little trouble seeing the difference, but ok.

[Reverie]

Those weren't pro-choicers, though. They were pro-abortionists.

Pro-choicers are pro-abortionists. Pro-choice just sounds less 'abortion is compulsory'

[Sonlirain]

Eh... by this logic newborn babies are not human either because in the first few months of everyone's life we are completely driven by instinct and completely not sapient.

So if we take this insane logic of "fetuses are not human" to the extreme people should be allowed to put down babies before they gain sapience (that's means a good few months after they are born) completely legally.
And if they decide to beat a baby to death with a hammer they should not be held responsible for murder because killing a baby with a hammer should be "animal cruelty" rather than murder.
Alas society is not progressive enough for that dream to come true.


Honestly tho... i get that some people don't want kids and abortion is completely acceptable in the first week or two. There are symptoms that you are pregnant dammit!
But when some decide to abort in the 6'th + month... where the fuck have you been for the past 5 months? Too high to realize you are pregnant? Afraid of your boyfriend/parents? The hell?

[Reverie]

Sonlirain, you seem to have a way of making things hella dark :/

Also, no. I don't follow your logic. Fetuses are fetuses. Babies are babies. Fetuses cannot feel, or think. Babies can.

[hector13]

The unfortunate point of that argument is that fetuses are babies. At what point does the change between them happen?

Edit: crap wording. At what point do we differentiate between a fetus and a baby?

[NJW2000]

No point can really be defined.

Taking the logic of the pro-lifers to extremes, on the other hand, and one ends up, from the claim that preventing the lives of future and potential beings is murder, at the conclusion that wearing condoms is a sin.

[Graknorke]

Not making as many babies as humanly possible would become morally unacceptable. And even then humanity would still be committing somewhere around a quadrillion potential murders per day.

[Reverie]

The unfortunate point of that argument is that fetuses are babies. At what point does the change between them happen?

Edit: crap wording. At what point do we differentiate between a fetus and a baby?

At a point in which said fetus is little more than aggressive cell division and not at a point which can be likened to bashing a newborn's head in with a hammer. There is a distinction, but I am not a scientist or a doctor and can't make the call on where the line is drawn. :/

Edit: speaking of drawing lines, I think I'll just drop out of this conversation. The graphic imagery is bothering me.

[Sergarr]

There is a distinction, but I don't personally know where the line is.
:/

Sounds like a job for fuzzy logic! We would just have to ask a lot of people to assign fetus/baby points to various stages of evolution, then sum it together and draw a "baby/fetus" graph. Thus afterwards, you could refer to said graph to determine a point in time with, say, 90% baby and 10% fetus, and make fuzzy decisions based on that information via fuzzy logic.

It would be both democratic and technological at the same time!

[Aklyon]

Well at least we derailed the previous topic.

[Reverie]

There is a distinction, but I don't personally know where the line is.
:/

Sounds like a job for fuzzy logic! We would just have to ask a lot of people to assign fetus/baby points to various stages of evolution, then sum it together and draw a "baby/fetus" graph. Thus afterwards, you could refer to said graph to determine a point in time with, say, 90% baby and 10% fetus, and make fuzzy decisions based on that information via fuzzy logic.

It would be both democratic and technological at the same time!

That's the thing; I'm not informed enough to make that call. Not a scientist nor a doctor.

[Rolan7]

Well at least we derailed the previous topic.

I was just thinking this, heh.
And before someone says that people are still free to share their emotions in the thread...  That justifies all off-topic posting ever, this isn't a discussion thread, and when I wake up to 5 new pages in an emotion thread guess what I do?

I skim right over the emotions to follow the discussion, because discussion is complicated and attention-grabbing.  That is why we have threads for it   There's a huge difference between commenting on people's shares, and this morass.