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[Neonivek]

I always figure it is more that people apply very modern elements onto good... and that is where the issues arise.

To the extent where I had arguments with someone as to whether or not Lawful Good societies could even have the death sentence.

So you get what people picture what would a "Good person" be in real life (AKA Mother Theresa) and then go "Wait, Mother Theresa wouldn't gun down Orcs" instead of going "Wait, Crusaders totally WOULD gun down orcs and stab their babies"

The best way I can put it is that... a stereotypical Crusades Crusader... Is a perfect example of Lawful Good in the worst possible way.

[scriver]

I always figure it is more that people apply very modern elements onto good...

To the extent where I had arguments with someone as to whether or not Lawful Good societies could even have the death sentence.

Good in DnD is based on modern morals, not medieval. Both Gary Gygax and Ed Greeenwood explicitly said so.

[Sergarr]

nd D&D/pathfinder/etc. is a setting where genocide and xenocide is often considered an and encouraged as an act of good

no it isn't.

1st, D&D is not a setting. 2nd, genocide is not encouraged as an act of good.

[Neonivek]

nd D&D/pathfinder/etc. is a setting where genocide and xenocide is often considered an and encouraged as an act of good

no it isn't.

1st, D&D is not a setting. 2nd, genocide is not encouraged as an act of good.

Except it TOTALLY IS...

There is a HUGE discrepancy with how good is handled in the setting... and how good is handled in real life.

As I said.. a Stereotypical Crusades Crusader should be able to be the archetypical Lawful Good villain.

Good in DnD is based on modern morals, not medieval

Based but it isn't modern morals.

Mostly because medieval morals outright would be alien.

[UXLZ]

Also, the universe has an objective means of determining Good and Evil, that is, the detection spells. If we had an objective way of, say, determining who's going to be a dick and who isn't from birth, the world would be totally different.

[Sergarr]

nd D&D/pathfinder/etc. is a setting where genocide and xenocide is often considered an and encouraged as an act of good

no it isn't.

1st, D&D is not a setting. 2nd, genocide is not encouraged as an act of good.

Except it TOTALLY IS...

There is a HUGE discrepancy with how good is handled in the setting... and how good is handled in real life.

As I said.. a Stereotypical Crusades Crusader should be able to be the archetypical Lawful Good villain.

D&D is not a fucking setting.

Faerun is a setting.
Forgotten Realm is a setting.
Eberron is a setting.
Greyhawk is a setting.

Dungeons and Dragon is NOT a fucking setting.

and non of these settings are "medieval" in any way except for weapons and armour. They have legal wizards for Christ's sake

[wobbly]

Half the issues of what LG is can be solved if your fleshing out the background of the setting. A paladin normally (but not always) assumes a religious order. There are vows, a code of conduct etc. whether his/her behavior is objectively good, it's "good" by the set of morals he/she has been taught to uphold.

[Neonivek]

I still consider it a setting...

Because not only can you travel between those worlds but the sort of flavors of the ultimate universe of dungeons and dragons... Permeates through them.

None of them break the fundamental rules... to the extent that when dungeons and dragons itself changes... those change. (For example when the alignments change... BOOM! universe shifts!)

Half the issues of what LG is can be solved if your fleshing out the background of the setting. A paladin normally (but not always) assumes a religious order. There are vows, a code of conduct etc. whether his/her behavior is objectively good, it's "good" by the set of morals he/she has been taught to uphold.

Or just state what it is before you start a game

[wobbly]

Also, the universe has an objective means of determining Good and Evil, that is, the detection spells. If we had an objective way of, say, determining who's going to be a dick and who isn't from birth, the world would be totally different.

Does is? I've always taken detect evil to detect "supernatural" evil, demons etc. rather then human villains.

[Sergarr]

N, and that "ultimate flavor of D&D universe" does not include medieval genocidal crusaders.

[Frumple]

2nd, genocide is not encouraged as an act of good.

It totes is. You specifically have wars of annihilation against sentients (such as demons/devils, various goblinoids, etc.) waged and supported by Good spectrum forces, including divinities that are supposed to be what amounts to physical incarnations of the concept in-universe. Comes up in most campaign settings based off D&D.

As for D&D being a general setting, yes, it sorta' is. The mechanics and general style built up by its core rules and representative campaigns lead towards a certain sort of world. That you were able to list a set of specific settings that all share very similar conceits -- what we're talking about here would be right at home in any of those -- should make that pretty clear. You can build something that significantly diverges from it, but when someone says D&D style it should be pretty obvious what they're talking about.

[Neonivek]

Also, the universe has an objective means of determining Good and Evil, that is, the detection spells. If we had an objective way of, say, determining who's going to be a dick and who isn't from birth, the world would be totally different.

Does is? I've always taken detect evil to detect "supernatural" evil, demons etc. rather then human villains.

Nope it detects a person's alignment too.

Though more accurately it detects how much "Goodness" and "Evil" you attract to your make up (Hence why many beings flat out get false readings like most of the undead)

But many settings have loathed this aspect and have gone out of their way to just outright say "no detect alignment"... which is something I fully support.

No really... They could remove methods to detect alignment from the main game too and I'd be in full support.

Since dungeons and dragons can NEVER decide if the alignments are cartoons, realistic, or to be ignored... Removing detect alignment would instantly fix it.

[Reelya]

We need political alignment detection spells. Greater Detect Republican.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

You would wonder why any setting with easily achievable spell that unfailingly tells you of a persons alignment and (assuming spells are created and not gifted down from the heavens with a quartet of angels and the spell inscribed in bloody gold inlay) by extension spells that would also unfailingly tell you about a persons likes and dislikes and destroys them if they dislike the original flavoured versions of anything aren't an extremely segregated society cut off from others in fractal subsets with pettier and pettier things being scanned for.

Man that actually sounds like a cool setting. 

[scrdest]

We need political alignment detection spells. Greater Detect Republican.

Do I hear a setting idea? FUND HE.