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[Neonivek]

They can state their opinions. They just have to be civil in that thread.

It is as simple as that.

[BlitzDungeoneer]

Neo, I just had a look at that thread and, well...

I honestly have no idea what to say. You put up a banlist. That should really explain everything.

[Neonivek]

Ohh well

Calling it here, this is the WTF chat and anymore and Toady will get involved.

[Loud Whispers]

The way I saw the thread, you were voicing your displeasure that adventure mode was monotonous and unfun because there were so many checks for situations that would result in your prompt gibbing. Many of them were 'you could have worn a coat' situations, where more preparation was needed to succeed. Things like crossing rivers - it can be done with swimming, jumping, climbing, bridges, crossing at night/dawn/colder climes e.t.c.
The part about werebeasts, I must admit I wholeheartedly laughed at because I can distinctly remember doing just exactly that. Found a werebeast's lair, broke every bone in his body and slept in his lair night after night until full moon. Then it was a were-rhino and I got rekt. I suspect that until profaning temples and cursed items come around, werebeast infections are best left to the dedicated and to Fortress mode.
Necromancer towers and hydras are some really late-game endeavours though. By the time you're assaulting either you should be legendary in multiple skills, have iron or steel armour (maybe even adamantine) a cohort of followers, the best weapons around and even then you play it safe. Necrobros are guarding the secrets to life and death, they're no pushovers. Also attacking a tower without checking if your followers are still with you is a really big mistake, very easily solved. Just make sure your followers are actually still with you before leaving. And bogeymen? They're supposed to kill you if you travel alone. That's why you fear the night, why you travel with companions and never drift too far from civilization. When you can kill bogeymen reliably you can kill most things reliably.
[Though you can also avoid them entirely by sleeping in the mountains/beaches and coming down for dawn, if you cannot find any towns/hamlets/fortresses. You can also outrun them through the night with high kinesthetic/agility/strength/spatial awareness].

People did initially disagree and criticize though, I feel that eliminating people from the discourse was counterintuitive to your intentions.

If your experiences of why DF adventure mode are not fun are based around dying to easily avoidable circumstances, I would not say that's a defence rally, I'd just say that's the community pointing out that when you invade Russia - you better bring a coat.

[Sergarr]

Though your experiences are pretty similiar to mine (in that companions kept being stuck on fucking rivers and the .40 adventure mode being nigh-unintelligible to understand, the "banlist" is an idea that I find both highly dubious and strangely named. Where did you get that idea of a banlist like that?

Also it appears that either your computer is really not up to date, or there's something wrong with your DF, because worldgen doesn't actually take all that long on a decent modern computer, especially on small/pocket worlds (I've easily made 10 000 year long worlds in pocket size in IIRC only several minutes).

[Loud Whispers]

Also it appears that either your computer is really not up to date, or there's something wrong with your DF, because worldgen doesn't actually take all that long on a decent modern computer, especially on small/pocket worlds (I've easily made 10 000 year long worlds in pocket size in IIRC only several minutes).

I've even made worlds by pressing random keys using Monoscii:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Neonivek]

No it is more that they weren't fun because of how avoidable they are, because of the lengths I had to go through.

Adding more and more tedium and circumstance.

Also attacking a tower without checking if your followers are still with you is a really big mistake, very easily solved

The point is mostly that there was no reason they should have ever not been with me. In order to eliminate that scenario, I have to add another tedium in making sure they all cross the river, making sure they are all close to me, and then fast traveling... and then doing this for every river between me and the necromancer tower... as well as possibly going down, seeing if everyone is there, then continuing my journey or hoofing it back for who knows how many days.

Instead of say, the earlier versions where if I wanted to fight the enemy... I would fast travel, go to where he is, go in there, then fight it... and then live or die.

I also wanted to be fair to the early game and mention thoughts I had that weren't positive in the early parts of the game. Such as inventory management being a nightmare.

Though you can also avoid them entirely by sleeping in the mountains/beaches and coming down for dawn

Seriously what are these games people are making where these are in abundance? Err wait Pocket worlds... nevermind I see. I never like Pocket Worlds.

People did initially disagree and criticize though

It isn't so much that. I expected it, it was the form of criticism I got that told me immediately that this thread was pretty much going to devolve, mostly because it was "accusatory" criticism. The Ban list was my hope to contain it. It didn't work. I'd say it backfired if it wasn't going to happen anyway.

Where did you get that idea of a banlist like that?

Originally it was used for topics in the lower boards that tended to have people who couldn't stay civil no matter what. My "Fanservice" thread had a banlist.

I'd definitely would still use it for those topics. It makes it easy for Toady to swoop in and deal with people who can't behave so the thread can move on.

Also it appears that either your computer is really not up to date, or there's something wrong with your DF, because worldgen doesn't actually take all that long on a decent modern computer, especially on small/pocket worlds

I wasn't creating pocket or small worlds, I was decreasing the size of the world bit by bit. The third one didn't "fail" but as I said, one civilization took over the world which is a rather boring world. I was going to attempt some more later, but yeah thread devolved.

[BFEL]

Where did you get that idea of a banlist like that?

Originally it was used for topics in the lower boards that tended to have people who couldn't stay civil no matter what. My "Fanservice" thread had a banlist.

I'd definitely would still use it for those topics. It makes it easy for Toady to swoop in and deal with people who can't behave so the thread can move on.

So you got the idea FROM YOURSELF. And this lends it magical credibility?

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No it is more that they weren't fun because of how avoidable they are, because of the lengths I had to go through.
Adding more and more tedium and circumstance.

So if you were provided an easy solution to those problems it'd be all right?

The point is mostly that there was no reason they should have ever not been with me. In order to eliminate that scenario, I have to add another tedium in making sure they all cross the river, making sure they are all close to me, and then fast traveling... and then doing this for every river between me and the necromancer tower... as well as possibly going down, seeing if everyone is there, then continuing my journey or hoofing it back for who knows how many days.

For a small river about 4 tiles wide you need only cross it, (w)ait and then you've got everyone there. Alternatively use creature tile swapping technique to manually get everyone there. Checking everyone is there takes less than a second with (c) and if you're going to a necromancer tower - you won't be needing companions. You'll be needing either vampire's blood or a whole lot of patience. Oh yeah, frozen river or regular brook is as always a good river crossing point. In every temperate biome rivers freeze at night and thaw past dawn, making river crossings easy as hell.

Instead of say, the earlier versions where if I wanted to fight the enemy... I would fast travel, go to where he is, go in there, then fight it... and then live or die.

Less realistic m9, got to use bridges, brooks or brave the elements

I also wanted to be fair to the early game and mention thoughts I had that weren't positive in the early parts of the game. Such as inventory management being a nightmare.

Seconded, inventory management today still remains: Keep inventories small.

Seriously what are these games people are making where these are in abundance? Err wait Pocket worlds... nevermind I see. I never like Pocket Worlds.

I use the largest worlds for my adventures, more places to visit. Beaches and mountains are always in abundance unless you have a superflat world with no oceans, or no coastal civs. Consider changing the parameters to increase civ density or have more variety if you wish.

It isn't so much that. I expected it, it was the form of criticism I got that told me immediately that this thread was pretty much going to devolve, mostly because it was "accusatory" criticism. The Ban list was my hope to contain it. It didn't work. I'd say it backfired if it wasn't going to happen anyway.

Accusatory criticism? Up until that one guy said you should stop playing roguelikes it was people pointing out the problems were problems meant to be solved by player finesse.

[Akura]

Bleh, trying to see if the Nuzlocke comic ever updated(apparently not but I still want to read it). Apparently the domain expired, and all attempts to find an archive version are coming right back to the expired domain.

[Rumrusher]

Finding out fire alpaca scripted brushes are coded in lua... and now wondering what type of brush would pop out if I plug in a DFhack lua script into it.
Other than that most of weird stuff been in DF like accidentally launching a child out of ballistic then later finding out the adventurer is her dwarf uncle pa married to her goblin mother.
Max(sorry I'm still that amaze over your feats) finding someone adopting 50 babies all of them a mix of races of not dwarf and dwarf in fort mode due to his child services actions.
Ghosts can't fly unless the raws naturally allows them to fly, thus any attempt to do so will cause them to lock player actions until they either stop being a ghost. I guess due to ghost acting like a flier tag with no gait to support it.

The one time I played a DnD game I swap places to be with a B team who ended up with a white dragon encounter that lead to B team returning to camp with a white dragon Follower.
oh yeah didn't new there was a papa louie 3 out after waiting so long for 2 to show up.

[Dutchling]

So today I found out Will Ferrell and Pharrel Williams are not the same person.

I guess that's what you get for not watching music videos.

[Rumrusher]

So today I found out Will Ferrell and Pharrel Williams are not the same person.

I guess that's what you get for not watching music videos.

would enjoy seeing Will Ferrell's rendition of Get lucky.

[Furtuka]

It was only my flat out unfiltered experiences with the game. They couldn't be argued against because they are not my opinion but rather what I myself have felt for myself. As it isn't my opinion but rather what I seen and felt myself. It is like someone telling a story about how they walked outside and got cold and you go "Objection! You could have worn a coat".

The major issue wasn't so much that people disagreed or brought forth criticism but so much that the criticism was antagonistic and caustic to the overall conversation and I just flat out wanted to eliminate everyone who was just going to poison the thread. Or that they just flat out didn't want to actually talk about the topic.

But then people got more and more antagonistic as the thread went on.

As for "Adventure mode can get boring" No, that wouldn't be a fruitful thread because of the "defense rally" of how adventure mode is actually fun and the reason your not having fun is because your not doing something.

The Ban-list COULD be seen as a mistake but frankly looking at how people posted... Do you honestly think that the thread would have been much better anyway? The only difference is whether or not people would have been trying to force me to defend my position for 10 threads or not, with the outright trolling being interspersed.

Look, Neo I'm gonna be blunt here. Normally I have a lot of respect for you. At the very least more than most people do as far as I have observed. But you handled this really poorly.

    The first and most immediate issue is that your way of typing is not conductive to the kind of presentation you were attempting to have in the first place. To be perfectly honest your habits of extending your words like Ohh, and repeating words, and constantly using similes, and adding extra vocalizations to make them more narrative kinda makes people's eyes glaze over when they read, and actually gives your posts an accusatory and bizarrely emotional tone that makes them pretty infuriating to someone who disagrees with you, and even someone who would normally look at it as fair criticism gets annoyed enough to see it as an attack. Like that is something I've done before, and because of that I was only able to actually understand your points in that case after a very long back and forth with you. Along with that I've read your opening post multiple times and still have no idea what you were trying to compare.

    The problem was added on to as even if your language had been taken the way you had intended, it was more like a break-up letter than criticism, as you had left no prompt in the post would have actually given people anything to discuss other than immediately criticizing your complaints. Like there was no actual topic other stated other than directly addressing your story, and so since as discussed earlier it came off as accusatory in tone angry criticism was pretty much inevitable. The way you locked it while throwing insults at the forum culture in general without letting people defend themselves against that only added to that impression and came off as immature. If you had wanted to explain that it was your experience and have a fair discussion, you should have said "this is what I experienced and..." and then asked some sort of question to give people an idea of what they should have been discussing.

And on the banlist, you brought that into play way too fast. If there had been a protracted fight with calls to please stop it then people might have seen it as justified, but the way you brought it out immediately only came off as shutting down criticism, and your attempts to explain it made it sound like a persecution complex, especially to the upper boarders who didn't know it was a continuation of a previous argument. And at that point most of the criticism in there had been knee jerk reactionary and minor in the major scheme of things and had not even been given a chance to calm down. And the basic concept was similar to the backseat modding people tend to get angry about even when trying to calm things down is justified.

[Neonivek]

I'd normally regret a few things Furtuka but no matter what I done in this situation the only proper move was not to make the thread.

Everything would have just boiled down to the very same event no matter what I did.

Even if it was the most well written, pandering, soft-spoken pile of trickle I could muster. It would have still been the same old "Well you just don't like roguelikes, I never have these problems, your just delusional" again and again.

And I was honestly tired of that. I am tired of it. I am tired of this constant "Well the problem is you" diatribe in everything. What value is that? Who enjoys those conversations?

In fact "I" can actually have these threads all by myself. I've listened to them so many times, I could write every single post that someone would have posted in this thread. Since nothing of value was going to be added to it, it is just the same old cycle.