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[Putnam]

Wasn't AoS more of a Hero Defense map (I.E PVE)? Also, AoS was a Starcraft map (though it did have a WC3 remake).

Also, League has tons of crap WC3 maps didn't/couldn't do. Lots of persistent out-of-game stuff that affects gameplay, for one (which I boo heartily, but then I'm somewhat biased).

[Frumple]

The original AoS back in starcraft was, yes (which, iirc, was itself derivative of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms maps). The AoS genre of WC3 maps were PvP more than anything.

And yeah, league really doesn't. All that junk is minor and has no mechanical difference involved that WC3 didn't or couldn't do, with ease. Hell, it could do persistent out-of-game stuff with password systems.* So, no.

*E: Though I can't recall names, there actually were a few AoS maps** with between-game crossover stuff. Load password, play game, save password, repeat, with stuff happening over time like that.

**: It was more common with RPG-style maps, of course.

[Putnam]

I do think I remember at least one map I liked to play in WC3 that had some persistence...

Also, Dota 2 obviously isn't going to do anything WC3 can't (except for replays, voice chat and other cushy UI stuff) due to it being more a remake than a sequel. I think IceFrog still works in WC3's map maker for gameplay updates. LoL doesn't have much of an excuse except maybe the $$$, HoN has very little excuse (also, they ripped off Dota something fierce, which oddly enough IceFrog agreed to let them do), but there have been games with interesting stuff. I forgot what it was called, started with an O, first non-WC3 Dota clone around, IIRC it was actually pretty different.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Hero Line Wars for lyfe, yo.

[Criptfeind]

I don't really have a issue with the name MOBA. In fact, I have issues understand the amount of hate it gets among some people.

 As far as I can tell the four main complaints to it are that 1: It's too broad a term, to which I say that really doesn't matter because people will just assign it whatever meaning, like RPGs and like what is going on with Roguelikes. 2: It's too narrow a term that will decrease innovation (this is a interesting one when it also comes with 1, which is something I have seen before) to which I say, eh, works for fps apparently and really I doubt people are going to have issue with such a broad term if they are already relying on it for design. 3&4: That it's a ugly or ungainly word. Which... Really. I just flatly disagree with. It already sounds better to me then FPS and I feel like both of these are just complaints brought against anything new (other then the complainers own personal pet term of course...) and I've not actually seen any terms that are actually like, better.

HLM isn't bad though. Not like. Good enough that I think it should be changed.

[Putnam]

Hero Line Wars for lyfe, yo.

FOR LIFE

Hopefully it'll come soon after the release of custom games for Dota 2. Element TD and Pudge Wars are being worked on right now...

[Aklyon]

Well, when you can fit planetside 2 (giant arena, lots of shooting, lots of multiplayer, is online), unreal tournament (smaller arena,less multiplayer,mostly fighting, has an online mode) awesomenauts (side-scrolling arena, multiplayer, is online, mostly fighting) and Dota (top-down arena, multiplayer, is online, is fighting when its not obsessed with last-hits) under the same acronym (along with most modern shooters that are better at multiplayer than "campaigns"), you kinda need a better one, Cript.

[Criptfeind]

Well. You can also fit all of those under RPG. Clearly that's no good ether.

[Aklyon]

The difference with RPG is that its actually known for being a specific kind of game by most people. Putting all of those as 'rpg' is like putting them all in 'roguelike', while you might be able to make them fit you'll also have people pointing out how very much they do not fit. MOBA is just something they made up so they didn't have to say 'LoL is similar to AoS'.

[GiglameshDespair]

drunk

it's odd knowing my mental stte is impaired
but stil feeling liek it's workig fine

how odd

[Criptfeind]

The difference with RPG is that its actually known for being a specific kind of game by most people.

:/

Come back to me six years ago.

Literally the only legitimate issue about the term MOBA I've ever heard of is that people are complaining about it.

[Frumple]

MOBA is just something they made up so they didn't have to say 'LoL is similar to AoS'.

... except it's not that LoL is similar to AoS (though it is), it's that LoL is an AoS map. Which... they're not difficult to describe. Two+ sides, computer controlled smaller critters, player controlled bigger/more important critters, everyone trying to kill everyone else. That's basically it. They're... not hard to identify. At all. Battleships, DotA, the varying AoS-style maps... line wars is arguably a variant, but it's sufficiently differentiated to be its own thing. Mainly by the players controlling spawns more directly -- AoS maps can have that, too (See Tides of Blood, EotA, many others), but it's usually an extra degree off and not tied directly to income.

Really, the problem with moba is they're trying to make a catchall term for something that is a very specific derivative of a very specific style and it's... catching considerably more than that style. Unsurprisingly.

AoS as a term for the style (subgenre, whatever you want to call it) worked for largely the same reason roguelike works, in largely the same way. Fairly descriptive in major strokes of (one of) the defining works within the style. DotA, LoL, HoN -- even awesomenauts -- are AoS-style games because that's exactly what they are, and trying to fit them into some other term starts catching other stuff. Like Arena-style maps (See... what was it, Bloodlines Champions?), which are, again, just a bloody WC3 custom map.

Could alternately just call them WC3 custom maps and be honest about it, too Or RTT (Real-time tactical, which is more or less what most AoS games are -- a smaller, more focused RTS with most of the S automated), which would be fine until someone actually pulls their head from their nethers and makes an AoS that takes advantage of modern computers (well, and code less shitty than WC3's) and actual working brain cells. Which I'm still waiting for *grumble grumble*

[kaijyuu]

I'd play a FtP game based off Castle Fight.

[Skyrunner]

How is PS2 a MOBA? It fails a lot of the descriptions in the wiki article--there are three teams, there are no discrete games (persistent online world!), characters are controlled through an FPS-style interface, the ovjecrive isn't to destroy the opponent's main structure(invulnerable warpgates x3).

[Flying Dice]

How is PS2 a MOBA? It fails a lot of the descriptions in the wiki article--there are three teams, there are no discrete games (persistent online world!), characters are controlled through an FPS-style interface, the ovjecrive isn't to destroy the opponent's main structure(invulnerable warpgates x3).

Because hypocrites like to use literal definitions in some cases and contextual definitions in others. See: Any argument that complains about the name of a genre or subgenre where someone brings up RPGs.

Also, insert the standard schtick about how everything is derivative right around here. If it isn't chaturanga in the style of the Kushan Empire it's a lackluster ripoff.