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[Pandarsenic]

Paul has Bene Gessert training. It wouldn't even be fair. Assuming we take Paul just before he becomes the Something Else, Something Unexpected, he still wins.

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit#Powers_and_Abilities
http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Bene_Gesserit_Training

Some are useless (Hey guys I can totally tell you what chemicals are in this food)

Some are not (The Voice, the Weirding Way, etc.)

Use The Voice to command Ezio to disarm himself. Derp. GG no re kthxbai

[lemon10]

Depends on the technology that paul takes through (hell, given that there is no size given for the doorway he could take a tank through, ill assume that he doesn't), if he takes a laser/(any type of ranged weapon)+shield he would win for sure, since none of ezio's ranged attacks would work vs the sheild, and paul could just shoot him with a gun.

CJ1145, you mistaking how the shield works, paul can just use a sword/gun, and attack as fast as he wants, while any of ezio's attacks would have to move slowly to get through the shield, likewise, stuff can move through the sheild slowly, so he can breath through it, now if there was a hurricane, i doubt that he would be able to breath through the sheild, but assuming that the wind ISN'T moving crazy fast, he would be fine.
Barbarossa, im pretty sure that the punching hand would be repelled, but nothing whatsoever would happen to the reaching hand.

There is more info on the dune wiki on how the sheild works: http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Shield/XD,

Personally i think the fight might go something like this (assuming paul took a sheild+sword and no gun):
Ezio:*throws knife*
Paul:*sheild deflects knife*
Ezio:*shoots him*
Paul:*sheild deflects shot*
Ezio:*gets within fighting range, and stabs at his seemingly unprotected chest*
Paul:*sheild deflects, and he uses distraction and ezio being off balance by his attack missing to stab him somewhere*
i think the last part would occur like 5 times, and eventually ezio would just die of blood loss/a fatal attack.i doubt ezio would even figure out how to get past the shield. if i tried to punch somebody and they just shrugged the attack off, I would hit them harder/faster next time, not slower and i get the feeling that ezio would do the same thing and in the end not even hurt Paul.

Therefore, the only way that ezio could win would be if for some reason paul left *all* future technology at home, and just brought a sword, even then though, Paul is pretty badass.
Also, the voice would be pretty useless in a fight to the death, i haven't read dune for a while, but im pretty sure that it isn't strong enough to be able to order someone to put down there weapons and die.
In short, all paul needs to do to win is take a gun through and gg

[Pandarsenic]

I don't recall anything specific on the kinds of commands you can give either.

Also, thought: Paul brings a Gom Jabbar? Definitely small enough.

[lemon10]

Hm... he could, but it would be rather pointless in a fight to the death, in my opinion, i see no way that it is superior to a sword/gun in a fight to the death

[Pandarsenic]

Because it's easily overlooked and even the slightest touch of it is guaranteed death?

But if they each bring weapons from their time period, Paul's weaponry is superior by far.

[Omegastick]

You're all discussing Paul's weaponry but forgetting Ezio's:

1. Poison: This is an instant (Albeit slow) kill for anything that it touches, and the fact that it isn't so much a physical thing as a mental thing may stop Paul from being able to change his metabolism.

2. Hidden blades: Also an instant kill. You guys were discussing, 'If Ezio were to strangle Paul with one hand and punch him with the other then would the shield chop of the strangling hand?' and came to the conclusion that nothing would happen to the strangling hand but the punching hand would be blocked. Towards the end of Assassin's Creed 2's main storyline Ezio kills two guards when they merely have their faces near his wrists, never mind being strangled by him!

3. Tank: Surely if Paul get's to bring a tank then Ezio get's to bring the one in Brotherhood! From the information about it it is found to be incredibly powerful and easily capable of taking a few hits from a modern (even more from lasers and such) tank.

4. Godly descent: This isn't technically equipment but you are forgetting the fact that Ezio just needs to grapple Paul off a tall building. Ezio can take falls in the game of up to six stories and still get up and walk away. If he lands in hay or water then he can do it without taking any damage at all. This ability comes from the fact that he is a descendant of one of the two escapees from the aliens/gods and because of this he is just plain awesome.

[lemon10]

Just a discalimer, i have never played assasins creed 2 before, so i may be wrong on some facts about it

1) Question, how is the poison mental? Even though it causes the target to go berserk, that appears to be a chemical reaction. Also, paul can't just change his metabolism, he is able to break down poisons even to its base components, renering it innevective. Not having a book with me, im not sure if it only applies to poisons he eats, or other types as well. Regardless, he has to stab him for the poison to take effect in the first place, and i don't see how he could get past the sheild

2) Yes, hidden blades are a insta kill in the game, but im pretty sure that the blades are going fast enough to be stopped by the sheild, rendering it innefective.

3) Future tank>15th century tank, no matter how well designed, the 15th century tank would have no way of even harming the future one (as its sheild would render all attacks but ramming very slowly pointless), and im pretty sure that a future tank would have capabilities to easily kill it. However, im pretty sure that no tanks would be allowed, since it wouldn't really be him personally fighting.

4) Can't find any info on his godly descent anywhere, more info please
On the subject of grappling paul, trying to grab someone with a sword/gun is PRETTY hard, especially if they are trying to kill you. Also, they are on a island, i get the feeling paul wouldn't fight right next to a cliff if he could avoid it.

And finally, what could he do if paul just brought a gun and started shooting him? anything?

[Iituem]

Actually, the whole

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

descendant of the Ones Who Came Before

thing might give him a level of immunity to the Voice - it depends how it works, but given the resistance to the mind-control effects of the Apple, that could take away one of pre-Ascension Paul's Bene Gesserit abilities.

Now, the Weirding Way is pretty powerful, but it also has two issues - 1) There is a short, four to five second delay before firing as the thing 'warms up'.  2) You actually need to see your opponent to make the hit.

Since we established that Paul can't keep the Holzmann shield on continuously in the Idaho discussion (though I still hold out you can last 15 minutes in the thing), Ezio simply needs to remain undetected until he is close enough to perform a stealth or 'death from above' kill before Paul can get the shield up.  Since he was pretty concerned about Sting Feyd Rautha stabbing him to death even once with the Emperor's blade, we can assume that the hidden blade will function just as effectively.

[lemon10]

a) im pretty sure the voice would be useless in a combat senario like this
b) paul knows that ezio is after him, therefore he could just find a place and hunker down to wait. short of having invisibility, i don't see how he could hide, he's a assassin who blends in with groups of people, not a ninja, im fairly sure that paul is observant enough to notice ezio if he was trying to hide, or find him first.

going over the idaho discussion i don't really see that evident, if really needed more air he could just turn the shield off for a few seconds then turn it back on.
Also, Ezio would have no way of knowing weather the sheild was up or not, so sneaking up would be rather pointless, if he were to discover that the sheild was on at the time his whole sneak attack would fail.

so i gather the only way for ezio to win is to never let paul know he's there?
while on the other hand all paul has to do to win is see ezio and shoot him, it seems pretty clear to me who is the winner here

[RAM]

We still don't know which Paul we are using. Prescient Paul has already won the whole contest, it is just a matter of the rest of us getting to find out how. Movie Paul is in trouble, but he probably gets one of those remote assassin things that kill you if you move. Also note that by the end of the movie he doesn't seem to need much 'building up' time.

As I understand it, in the books, the weirding way is a form of martial arts, one that probably involves various supernatural elements.

[Pandarsenic]

Now, the Weirding Way is pretty powerful, but it also has two issues - 1) There is a short, four to five second delay before firing as the thing 'warms up'.  2) You actually need to see your opponent to make the hit.

Books, not movies, son.

Bene Gesserit Prana/Bindu control means that Paul is basically the unquestioned master of his body down to a molecular level. If he's conscious, he's immune to poison.

If Paul's shield is up, he's immune to most things that would be one-hit kills, as they would reach velocities at which the shield would react.

The duel with Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen was unshielded and Feyd-Rautha made a respectable but ultimately unsuccessful attempt at cheating. Paul still won.

[Omegastick]

Forgive me for not knowing much about Dune, but how close is the shield to his body? If it is any further than half a foot away from his body then Ezio could easily use the hidden blade to get him. Stealth assassinations often involve simply touching the enemy and then activating the hidden blade.

Also, how fast can Paul react to the poison? There is about a two second delay before the poison takes complete control of the target, after which the target wildly flails about their weapon/fists and follows to die. It is assumed that in this time the target is completely incapable of controlling his body, never mind his metabolism.

Also, in response to Paul hiding in a room until Ezio reveals himself then surely Ezio can just camp outside with food until Paul starves to death or falls asleep; at which point the winner is clear.

Finally, a user said earlier that Ezio would just keep hitting the shield harder in the hopes of it breaking. There are several problems with that:

1. If that were the case then we have to assume that Paul doesn't know about Ezio's equipment either. Therefore, Ezio can use his rather huge arsenal of weapons and distractions (smoke bombs, poison, etc.) without Paul's knowing.

2. I'm going out on a limb and assuming that Paul can't resist poison that he doesn't know is in his system. There are no nerves in the body for detecting poison and as such it would require psychic abilities to know about the poison and protect against it in under two seconds.

3. Ezio isn't stupid, he would know (after hitting it harder) that his attacks aren't doing anything and as such would try a different tactic.

4. Ezio (with Altair's armour) could take way more than five hits. Have you ever stood in the middle of a crowd of angry guards in the game and seen how long you can go for. You can take fifteen-ish hits before going into a state where you have to take some medicine to survive, at which point you can take another seven hits for each vial of medicine! Five hits would do nothing more than scratch Ezio.

[ed boy]

A few points:

>From what I can make out, Paul 'the voice' power requires him to spend some time beforehand noting various subtleties in how the target acts, before having the other person enter a trance to imprint the person mentally. Paul will not have had time to do this beforehand.

>The doorway is the size of a normal doorway. No tanks.

>the match with Duncan Idaho involved a lengthy disucssion about the shield. If the shield is continuous, then air molecules and the like would be unable to pass it, and the user would be unable to breate. Individual photons would also be unable to pass, and thus the user would be unable to see. Instead, it was ruled that the approximation that would give effects closest to those depicted in the dune series would be for the shield to instead have a vast multitude of very small holes, permeable enough for air molecules to pass through but not permeable for something larger to pass through (unless it was going slow enough)

>It can also be assumed that the shields respect force and momentum properly. If not, then the user would simply sink into the ground under the force of gravity. Thus, if Paul is hit while using his shield, even if it does not penetrate, he will still be pushed backwards.

[Virex]

Some points for you guys about Paul, shields and Dune technology:
1.) I assume we'd take non-prescient Paul, since as said, once he develops prescience he'd be unstoppable (unless Ezio has latent prescience himself, like Feyd-Rautha, in which case Paul wouldn't be able to see him. Since Paul became blind at the start of the second book that'd actually be a disability). Without prescience he's limited to the abilities of a mentat, a "human computer". He'd be hard to trick for sure, but it should provide an interesting matchup with a master assassin.


2.) There are no tanks in Dune. Shields make any kind of gun useless, limiting the use of vehicles to transport purposes. for this, boats and orinothopters (flying machines that flap their wings) are much better. (There is heavy artillery but only the Harkonen are reported to use them and only in Dune's very special circumstances. It's unlikely that Paul would have access to them before he became the Emperor.)


3.) It is unlikely that Paul would bring a lasgun with him, since if Ezio would be able to get a hold of that gun, Paul couldn't activate his shield. Shield + lasgun = Paul gone. or Paul and Ezio gone. Or entire island gone. The effect of a lasgun/shield interaction can be very violent and unpredictable. Only other kind of ranged weapon Paul would have access to are stun guns using slow-flying bullets (and that is assuming we're talking about Paul on Dune, and not at the start of the book on Caladan, in which case he doesn't have anything but swords). However, with Ezio being an assassin I doubt that'd do much good (does Ezio know gun kata anyway?)


4.) Shields are skin-tight but also permit the passing of slow objects. The speed at which you'd grab a cup is roughly the speed at which things can move trough. This means (again) that air can move trough it, but as Paul uses more energy the air goes stale. It also limits his own movement speed, though to a lesser extent. Objects going faster are deflected as if they hit a rigid wall. This means that if Ezio gets to approach Paul from behind and he has prepared sufficiently, then there's a good chance he'd be able to stab Paul with his hidden blades (have then extend beforehand then push slowly but steadily. Requires damn sharp blades tough). Then again, with Paul being a mentat and a Bene Geserit, approaching him from behind is kinda tough. (See also the ruling on flame throwers VS. Shields in the previous discussion). It's even said that shields on doors and such can be set to let nothing pass but doing that to a human would indeed suffocate him. Hence why you can still kill someone with a sword.
On a similar note, Holzman fields don't fully respect the laws of force and momentum since they slow the falling of objects and can even be used to suspend things (though that is only used for small things. There are no references made to people actually hovering, but they do use Holzman fields to slow their fall). The reason that a shield doesn't cause weird effects with the ground is that if you're close to the ground you fall at such a slow speed that you go trough your own shield and reach the ground, enabling you to walk. If you put your foot down fast enough there will be a small shield layer underneath it, but since a shield is very thin you'd hardly notice that.


5.) The poison is not likely to work, not only because Paul can change most poisons to a harmless state as part of his Bene Geserit training but also because Spice is a potent antidote against most known posions. It could work though, since Paul doesn't become a full master of his own physiology until the moment he becomes prescient and we're talking about the pre-prescient Paul.

[ed boy]

Interesting points on the shields not respecting forces properly (such as slowing a fall). How does momentum work? For example, If I were to drive a car into someone who had a shield activated, would they be sent flying, or would they remain stationary and the car crumple around them?