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[umiman]

The Good Old Days
Have the kingdom of Frisia as your primary title and have the duchies of Flanders and Brabant be dejure part of it.

What timing...

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

The Good Old Days
Have the kingdom of Frisia as your primary title and have the duchies of Flanders and Brabant be dejure part of it.

What timing...

Okay.  That was unintentional.  Should we take this as a sign to run the challenge in Ironman?

[Man of Paper]

Well I mean now it has to happen.

[Rolan7]

Black Pope
Have a priest you corrupted (as a Satanist) become Pope.


Smash the Patriarchy
As female Messalian/Bogomilist/Cathar Ruler own all 5 baronies which make up the Orthodox Pentarchies and have a female temple holder control them.

Oh wow haha

Legacy of the Indo-Norse
Start as a Norse Character, hold a Kingdom in India as your primary title. Your capital must also be located in India and converted to Norse.

They sure love this idea, huh?
And I like the Gotland one, I've tried that a couple times without success.

[Tawa]

I've made a couple of test excursions as various Frisian characters, and we have a couple problems.

1) Frisian Liberation Revolts pop up all the time, which do little but ruin your land and waste your time
2) Zeeland is, in the 1066 start, under the jurisdiction of France, while the rest of Frisia is in the HRE
  2a) To be an independent Frisia we'd have to escape the HRE
3) There are only two counts in de jure HRE Frisia in 1066, and they're both under the superduke of Lower Lorraine (and one of them is German rather than Frisian or Dutch, anyway)

I also tried a game as the Norse count of Holland in 867, but he's got his own issues--Norse is in a totally different cultural group than Dutch and Lotharingia tends to explode into warfare until another Karling takes a kingdom or inherits the realm. 769 has the problem that Big Karl owns half the counties in Frisia personally.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I've made a couple of test excursions as various Frisian characters, and we have a couple problems.

1) Frisian Liberation Revolts pop up all the time, which do little but ruin your land and waste your time
2) Zeeland is, in the 1066 start, under the jurisdiction of France, while the rest of Frisia is in the HRE
  2a) To be an independent Frisia we'd have to escape the HRE
3) There are only two counts in de jure HRE Frisia in 1066, and they're both under the superduke of Lower Lorraine (and one of them is German rather than Frisian or Dutch, anyway)

I also tried a game as the Norse count of Holland in 867, but he's got his own issues--Norse is in a totally different cultural group than Dutch and Lotharingia tends to explode into warfare until another Karling takes a kingdom or inherits the realm. 769 has the problem that Big Karl owns half the counties in Frisia personally.

We do this not because it is easy, but because it is hard as hell.  Maybe we can have the limitations on land only apply when you become independent so there's at least some chance, upon which time we have to set free the vassals outside of the land, but we should at least try to do so without doing so.

[misko27]

That "Smash the Patriarchy" one is kinda clever, I like it.

[Tawa]

I've made a couple of test excursions as various Frisian characters, and we have a couple problems.

1) Frisian Liberation Revolts pop up all the time, which do little but ruin your land and waste your time
2) Zeeland is, in the 1066 start, under the jurisdiction of France, while the rest of Frisia is in the HRE
  2a) To be an independent Frisia we'd have to escape the HRE
3) There are only two counts in de jure HRE Frisia in 1066, and they're both under the superduke of Lower Lorraine (and one of them is German rather than Frisian or Dutch, anyway)

I also tried a game as the Norse count of Holland in 867, but he's got his own issues--Norse is in a totally different cultural group than Dutch and Lotharingia tends to explode into warfare until another Karling takes a kingdom or inherits the realm. 769 has the problem that Big Karl owns half the counties in Frisia personally.

We do this not because it is easy, but because it is hard as hell.  Maybe we can have the limitations on land only apply when you become independent so there's at least some chance, upon which time we have to set free the vassals outside of the land, but we should at least try to do so without doing so.

Of course it's because it's hard, I just wanted to point out the potential issues that might pop up :v

Might I recommend the Duke of Holland, though? At the single-county-count level, you're working off fabrication, plotting, and dicey marriages to get claims with, and it would end up being a really luck-based competition--whoever can fabricate claims the fastest and save up mercenary money the quickest would have a huge advantage. Things speed up considerably at the duchy level.

[Cruxador]

Why does the "Black Pope" use the cross of St. Peter rather than the leviathan cross? The real Pope actually uses the cross of St. Peter since he sits on the throne of St. Peter.

[misko27]

Why does the "Black Pope" use the cross of St. Peter rather than the leviathan cross? The real Pope actually uses the cross of St. Peter since he sits on the throne of St. Peter.

Probably because the Leviathan cross is just the alchemical symbol of sulphur, and so isn't actually more right.

If you are going to go with something wrong, why not choose the more interesting wrong?

[Cruxador]

Why does the "Black Pope" use the cross of St. Peter rather than the leviathan cross? The real Pope actually uses the cross of St. Peter since he sits on the throne of St. Peter.

Probably because the Leviathan cross is just the alchemical symbol of sulphur, and so isn't actually more right.

If you are going to go with something wrong, why not choose the more interesting wrong?

The leviathan is the more interesting one.

[scriver]

Presumably because the upside down cross is popularly more associated with satanism.

As you very well know.

[CABL]

This old fuck depicted here managed to live long enough to make me start screaming profanity at my monitor. I fabricated two claims on his land without noticing that he has tons of allies, so I decided to wait till he dies (his heir was lazy, dumb and suffered from syphilis). So instead of dying, he lived like 13-15 years since I fabricated the claims. Then he dies and I crush his heir without any troubles, but as a payment, I contract Slow Fever and lose an arm during the treatment.

I probably shall share my stories somewhere on official subreddit, in "Feudal Friday" thread.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Might I recommend the Duke of Holland, though? At the single-county-count level, you're working off fabrication, plotting, and dicey marriages to get claims with, and it would end up being a really luck-based competition--whoever can fabricate claims the fastest and save up mercenary money the quickest would have a huge advantage. Things speed up considerably at the duchy level.

That could work.  Can even get a modicrum of control over how they end up due to them being a kid.

So that makes the challenge being, without further edits:

The Bay 12 Frisia Challenge
Starting as the Duke of Holland on September 15, 1066, you must form an independent Kingdom of Frisia as soon as you can without cheating, then play to the Crusader Kings II end date.  The victor of this challenge will be determined by who has the most amount of de jure land within the Kingdom at that date.  The counties you hold must be within one county of the de jure borders when you become independent, with any land gained beyond this needing to be made independent.  If a vassal expands beyond this limit, then you may keep them, but you cannot form vassals with territory beyond this limit and any vassals that do not have any land in de jure Frisia must be declared independent.  All options are to be kept to the default settings except for enabling Ironman, and any DLC combination is allowed.

Sound good to everyone?  Who's going to be trying it, by the way?

[Reudh]

I've made a couple of test excursions as various Frisian characters, and we have a couple problems.

1) Frisian Liberation Revolts pop up all the time, which do little but ruin your land and waste your time
2) Zeeland is, in the 1066 start, under the jurisdiction of France, while the rest of Frisia is in the HRE
  2a) To be an independent Frisia we'd have to escape the HRE
3) There are only two counts in de jure HRE Frisia in 1066, and they're both under the superduke of Lower Lorraine (and one of them is German rather than Frisian or Dutch, anyway)

I also tried a game as the Norse count of Holland in 867, but he's got his own issues--Norse is in a totally different cultural group than Dutch and Lotharingia tends to explode into warfare until another Karling takes a kingdom or inherits the realm. 769 has the problem that Big Karl owns half the counties in Frisia personally.

Alas there's no 650-734 start where Frisia had its own independent kingdom. By 734 Magna Frisia was defeated by the Francian armies. At this time, Frisia was still following Germanic paganism, and had a loose feudal system made up of multiple petty kingdoms that would combine into a single unit during war times; thus, the king of Frisia Magna was closer to a wartime administrator and a figurehead at other times. Interestingly, while there was still societal stratification, there was no true feudal system with serfdom in Frisia.