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[Urist McScoopbeard]

Ya, I have the Duchies of Connacht, Leinster, Meath (spelled right?) and what I own of Ulster divied up between counts, but I was considering making Ulster and Munster duchies once I totally conquered them to reduce maintenance.


Hey If my son is a different dynasty than me do I continue playing or am I going to have to whack him?

[Paul]

Different dynasty inheriting = game over.

How'd you manage that anyway? Did you get suckered into a matrilineal marriage for your main heir earlier on? Or forget to make a matrilineal marriage if your heir was a woman?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Not sure, I betrothed and when they king offered his daughter he must of set it to matrineal (it never says) anyways, I had to assassinate ALOT of people to get shit straight, now lots of people hate me and I dont want to go through the whole subduing Ireland thing.

[Paul]

Ah, yes. Always be careful about them offering the marriage - it does say in the message, you just have to look for it. The AI will always try to get matrilineal marriages if they can, but if you decline and send your own proposal they'll accept.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I looked man I looked, I really don't know how I missed it.

[Trorbes]

Maybe they're bastards, your wife might have a lover or something.

[lemon10]

I give my counties/dutchys out to landless+culture+religion+male (since I have no choice about that), and only pick those (if at all possible) that are content, their heir might not be content, but it IS pretty much the best possible combinations (since being content they are unlikely to rebel even if your heir takes over).

I personally prefer having as few direct vassals as possible (Kings) and bribing them senseless with the lands gained in Holy Wars. Trying to keep your vassals weak simply doesn't work once you own multiple Empires.

Yes it does. As long as you keep all the king titles to yourself, then your nobles will be fairly limited (yes, you will get nobles with a dozen provinces, and three+ dutchys, but when you have a hundered provinces, having 10 rebel isn't really very dangerous, while a king can have dozens of vassals and tons more provinces (especially if they have multiple kingdoms), and can, in theory actually threaten you.
Maximum power of duke:
Especially when your get crown laws high enough to stop them fighting amongst themselves.

[Azthor]

I give my counties/dutchys out to landless+culture+religion+male (since I have no choice about that), and only pick those (if at all possible) that are content, their heir might not be content, but it IS pretty much the best possible combinations (since being content they are unlikely to rebel even if your heir takes over).

I personally prefer having as few direct vassals as possible (Kings) and bribing them senseless with the lands gained in Holy Wars. Trying to keep your vassals weak simply doesn't work once you own multiple Empires.

Yes it does. As long as you keep all the king titles to yourself, then your nobles will be fairly limited (yes, you will get nobles with a dozen provinces, and three+ dutchys, but when you have a hundered provinces, having 10 rebel isn't really very dangerous, while a king can have dozens of vassals and tons more provinces (especially if they have multiple kingdoms), and can, in theory actually threaten you.
Maximum power of duke:
Especially when your get crown laws high enough to stop them fighting amongst themselves.

I'd rather have absolutely no vassal rebel than have a handful rebel every so often, not to mention happy vassals provide better levies. Once I am that large I don't care as to who I am fighting against: no matter who it is, the AI is too lousy to present a threat and, due to gathering the levies being the longest part of a war when you own 500+ holdings, the amount of work involved in taking down a Duke, a King or an Emperor is roughly equivalent.

Keeping all of the de jure Kings happy, on the other hand, is a simple matter of continuously taking territory from heathens and handing it to them; something you should be aiming for anyway if you are going for total domination.

[Tarran]

I'd rather have absolutely no vassal rebel than have a handful rebel every so often, not to mention happy vassals provide better levies.

Since when is there ever a case where a vassal won't rebel for the rest of the game? Sooner or later, there will be someone who just doesn't like you, either due to their traits or yours. You can give them gifts, give them land, and so on, but the former only works once and the latter only works while you're still conquering, which can face setbacks at times, and it also makes them even stronger.

Then there's also the times they plot and then rebel...

As for happy vassals, what's preventing you from making all your weak vassals happy?

[Azthor]

I'd rather have absolutely no vassal rebel than have a handful rebel every so often, not to mention happy vassals provide better levies.

Since when is there ever a case where a vassal won't rebel for the rest of the game? Sooner or later, there will be someone who just doesn't like you, either due to their traits or yours. You can give them gifts, give them land, and so on, but the former only works once and the latter only works while you're still conquering, which can face setbacks at times, and it also makes them even stronger.

Then there's also the times they plot and then rebel...

As for happy vassals, what's preventing you from making all your weak vassals happy?

That is the whole point; if you want genuinely weak vassals you will need to keep dozens upon dozens of direct vassals around, a number you cannot hope to satisfy.   If you only have a handful of direct vassals, on the other hand, the only thing keeping you from getting enough land to keep their disposition permanently at 100 is complacency. The moment you own two Empires or more, no AI nation can oppose your armies; it is trivial to go to war with five or more heathens every 10 years and claim several duchies through Holy War.

[Tarran]

That is the whole point; if you want genuinely weak vassals you will need to keep dozens upon dozens of direct vassals around, a number you cannot hope to satisfy.

Not really. You can give them gifts, or give them land. Just like the strong vassals. It's harder, but it's still definitely possible.

And if you really can't maintain them, assuming you've kept them weak, they shouldn't be much of a threat and you can just give their titles to someone else when they're beaten. The new guy will like you forever. And you didn't even have to strengthen a vassal to make the vassal happy.

If you only have a handful of direct vassals, on the other hand, the only thing keeping you from getting enough land to keep their disposition permanently at 100 is complacency.

Not really. Imagine: You lose your ruler. Now your vassals hate your new ruler. You decide to get land for them. But remember that moving armies takes time, especially inland. So while you're getting ready to give your upset vassals land, they revolt.

Or, perhaps, your army gets trashed for some reason or another and you cannot afford to war for a bit. Then your vassals revolt.

Or maybe you run out of heathens entirely? What then?

Really, the moment your system hits a kink and your vassals hate you, you're going to have revolts. Competency isn't the only killer in this game, the RNG also kills (literally, it kills rulers).

[Azthor]

Not really. You can give them gifts, or give them land. Just like the strong vassals. It's harder, but it's still definitely possible.

Good luck getting enough land to keep a hundred Dukes happy.

And if you really can't maintain them, assuming you've kept them weak, they shouldn't be much of a threat and you can just give their titles to someone else when they're beaten. The new guy will like you forever. And you didn't even have to strengthen a vassal to make the vassal happy.

A rogue King is no threat once you have 900+ holdings. The most bothersome part of the fight is raising and gathering the levies; once you have done that, what does it matter who you are fighting if they are ants one way or the other?

Not really. Imagine: You lose your ruler. Now your vassals hate your new ruler. You decide to get land for them. But remember that moving armies takes time, especially inland. So while you're getting ready to give your upset vassals land, they revolt.

That is easily solved; just keep your heir strong and you will have more than enough stored land to give away once the succession happens.

Or, perhaps, your army gets trashed for some reason or another and you cannot afford to war for a bit. Then your vassals revolt.

We were talking about a nation two or more Empires large; the AI cannot really beat your army, no matter what.

Or maybe you run out of heathens entirely? What then?

I can't speak for everyone, but since Holy Wars only work one duchy at a time and claims can be used to get whole Kingdoms in a single war, by the time the last heathen falls I quite much own the map.

Really, the moment your system hits a kink and your vassals hate you, you're going to have revolts. Competency isn't the only killer in this game, the RNG also kills (literally, it kills rulers).

They have to hate you in the first place, don't they? While I will be the first to admit that the RNG can throw a blunder in the player's plans, it is always within the player's ability to circumvent their fall.

[Tarran]

Good luck getting enough land to keep a hundred Dukes happy.

You don't have to give the land to all of them, just to the unhappy ones.

Also, gifts.

A rogue King is no threat once you have 900+ holdings. The most bothersome part of the fight is raising and gathering the levies; once you have done that, what does it matter who you are fighting if they are ants one way or the other?

I suppose you're right that they aren't threats.

But regardless, it's still easier to deal with a lone duke rather than a king, both time wise and manpower wise.

That is easily solved; just keep your heir strong and you will have more than enough stored land to give away once the succession happens.

That's assuming you want to give your heir land. And assuming you don't have more kings that hate you than land.

We were talking about a nation two or more Empires large; the AI cannot really beat your army, no matter what.

I'm not arguing if an AI can beat your army, I'm arguing about if they somehow did. Or your army got eaten up by attrition. Whether they can or cannot, is besides the point entirely.

I can't speak for everyone, but since Holy Wars only work one duchy at a time and claims can be used to get whole Kingdoms in a single war, by the time the last heathen falls I quite much own the map.

While you can press for kingdoms at a time, you could run into situations where there are fractured kingdoms or where there are no claimants that want to come to your court. I've often struggled to find claimants that wanted to come to my court.

They have to hate you in the first place, don't they?

Yes, often they do have to hate you in the first place. I'm pretty sure I've never said otherwise.

While I will be the first to admit that the RNG can throw a blunder in the player's plans, it is always within the player's ability to circumvent their fall.

I doubt it. If the RNG somehow gives your heir's heir crappy traits, kills your heir, gives ALL of your vassals Ambitious and then they start plotting but refuse to stop or you never find out the plot, and then you have 90% of your kings revolt for a claim on your throne, I question if it's still within the player's ability.

[EuchreJack]

Azthor, what are your succession rules?  Is there a risk of two empires getting divided up between two male heirs, or is that not possible under Gravekind with two held empires?

[Trorbes]

To king/emperor titles get divided between sons?  I've never stuck with gavelkind for long enough, but I always thought the successor always inherited the highest-tier titles, and the pretenders took their share of the lower tiers, in order to keep all the land within the realm.