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[Dutchling]

You'd think that military plots, like revoke X and lower crown laws would depend on military power and not on intrigue. Intrigue is never used in the plot, as you don't kill someone.

[forsaken1111]

You'd think that military plots, like revoke X and lower crown laws would depend on military power and not on intrigue. Intrigue is never used in the plot, as you don't kill someone.

Maybe they are. There's a lot about this game which is not obvious. I love the complexity but the interface just doesn't do a great job at explaining everything.

[Kanil]

Maybe you had an awesome spymaster?

Across multiple rulers, multiple spymasters, and multiple games? I find that somewhat unlikely.

You'd think that military plots, like revoke X and lower crown laws would depend on military power and not on intrigue. Intrigue is never used in the plot, as you don't kill someone.

That's how military plots worked in Sengoku, and I'd imagine that's how military plots work in CK2 as well. It would certainly explain the ease of being stronger than a one prov minor. I'd imagine there's more to it, but it seems a decent starting point.

[pilgrimboy]

Astonishingly, the Plentiful Paradox Bundle (the one that include Crusader Kings II) became more amazing. Europa Universalis III Chronicles is on sale right now at Amazon for $14.99, but if you bought the bundle it rings out for free because of a coupon for EUIII Chronicles attached to the bundle. Don't miss out on your opportunity to make that Bundle even more bundalicious.

[Duuvian]

Astonishingly, the Plentiful Paradox Bundle (the one that include Crusader Kings II) became more amazing. Europa Universalis III Chronicles is on sale right now at Amazon for $14.99, but if you bought the bundle it rings out for free because of a coupon for EUIII Chronicles attached to the bundle. Don't miss out on your opportunity to make that Bundle even more bundalicious.

Yeah, this is a really great deal if you like these type of games. I picked it up a few days ago and was very pleased for 12$ and it it's now even better. The downside is I'm unsure if I should wait till July 2nd to see if they offer a sale on something else I'd like or if I should get free stuff now.

So far I've tried CK2 and Sword of the Stars 2 (which runs really slow for some reason on my computer). Ck2 is better for me for that reason but Sword of the Stars 2 would be really cool if it liked my PC. Sword of the Stars 2 is sort of like a prettier, less buggy and slightly simpler Aurora.

[RedKing]

1130-something, and I'm on the cusp of creating the Kingdom of Ireland. Feels good. Although I wish there was an option to make my Irish rulers stop using the Gaelic naming pattern because it's getting ridiculous. I have an heir named Mael-Murchead mac Mael-Ciaran Ua Briann.

Should be an interesting game going forward, because William the Bastard wound up being a minor figure in French history, after his landhold got owned by Harald the Conqueror, who united the crowns of Norway and England. Periodically one of the larger duchies like York or Hereford will try to break away from the Norwegian throne, but it doesn't last. Once, Magnus I claimed the English crown and used it to wage war against his mother, Queen Gertruda of Norway. Then Gertruda died, and he inherited the Norwegian throne anyways, reuniting the kingdoms. And thus, centuries from now, teatime will be replaced by lutefisk-time. 

Once I've got my royal throne, I might have to work out some kind of alliance with the Scots to reclaim England and Wales in the name of Celtic solidarity.

[Duuvian]

Disregard this post, I was wrong. I thought you could get the Tropico Bundle too but it appears to be unique to what they specifically said was offered, which makes sense.

[Gantolandon]

You'd think that military plots, like revoke X and lower crown laws would depend on military power and not on intrigue. Intrigue is never used in the plot, as you don't kill someone.

Actually, military power is used - usually the plot target doesn't cooperate and you need to win the war against him.

And Intrigue score is used, because by plotting you do something that shouldn't happen by medieval law. Your liege is the chosen of God and you sworn loyalty to him, so you can't just approach his other vassals and expect them to attack him with you. You would be ridiculed at best. You need some kind of pretext to rebel and plotting represents just that.

Lowering the crown laws, for example, isn't that easy as pressing the king to get rid of some of them. Medieval laws were a bizarre mix of tribal customs and ancient Roman laws. They were not something that someone could enact or repel - formally they were always the same and never changed. You need to find some churchmen who are experts in local law or at least can pose as such, then convince them to support your cause. It may require procuring some "ancient" scrolls, or silencing that one jurist who will most likely disagree. Only after you do something like that, others will at least start considering to support you.

[RedKing]

Good example would be Act I in Shakespeare's Henry V, where the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of Ely go through a convoluted legal argument to King Henry as to why he has a casus belli on the King of France. Which is in itself a plot to keep the King from considering a law which would raise Church taxes considerably.

And the gist of the argument is that the French are using Salic Primogeniture to deny Henry's claim, and the Archbishop argues that Salic law was intended for use only in Lorraine and not in all of France, and that several French monarchs and usurpers had used Semisalic (Agnatic-Cognatic in CK2 terms) lineage for their own claims.

So yeah...plotting would involve long monologues, bribes paid to gate guards, subtle forgeries of documents, etc. Plotting to lower crown laws is essentially what happened to King John with the signing of the Magna Carta and the Council of Barons.

[forsaken1111]

Nuh uh, you just march into the throne room with a few big guys and rough the king up a bit. Military power determines plot effectiveness obviously.

I mean really, how can a 'plot' be tied to your military power or prowess? A plot is by its very nature a subtle and devious thing. Backing a 'plot' with your army is called a 'demand'.

[RedKing]

Because no one is going to sign on to your clever and cunning plan if you're Lord Farquhar of Wimselydale, with a grand total of jacksquat to defend yourself. You need to have enough credible power to defend yourself (and your co-conspirators) if things go bad. But the accomplishment of the plot need not require open conflict. In other words, you gotta have the muscle to be a legit contender and threaten to lean on some people, but you don't necessarily have to break out the swords to pull it off.

[forsaken1111]

They might if your last three enemies have died horrible deaths and nobody can pin anything on you.

[Tarran]

My god, my king just does not want to die even when people are dying at age 32. First with Ill which gives -2 health which turned into a disease that gives -4 health, and at age 62, he's just trucking along like a boss. Not that I'm complaining, the guy has amazing Diplo, Steward, and Learning stats.

Edit: nooooo. He finally kicked the bucket after another month at -4 health. Oh well, he was a great king.

[Kanil]

Eugh, I've made a terrible mistake. I formed the Spanish empire and dished out it's 7 kingdom titles to my vassals. Unfortunately it'll take 100 years for them to all assimilate into the Spanish empire, until that point they're not ruled by my de jure laws and are free to conquer each other. Balls!

[andrea]

there is an empire of spain?

a great reason to finish conquering the entire peninsula! I REALLY need an empire... I have 4 kingdoms already

how many kingdoms do I need to get the empire?
sadly a good part of spain is owned by the holy roman empire. a rather powerful holy roman empire.
but I think I can grab another kingdom title from infidels, and if navarre is a kingdom, I can probably get that too, slowly ( independent navarre, easy prey but needs 2 or 3 war to get all its land)

edit: now that I think of it... is there a british empire of some kind too? would be less annoying than having england ruled by emperor of spain)