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[Lord Dullard]

I've finally started playing an Ireland game in my spare time with Bella Gerant Alii. Started out as Oriel; I now control Ireland and Scotland, as well as a small chunk of Iberia, and a couple of provinces in the ME that I crusaded. I just installed my son on the throne of France because the prior king had converted to Cathar and dishonored our alliance, and obviously I couldn't stand for that.

[Glowcat]

I was wrong. They really are coming out with a shallow overpriced DLC. Time to move onto the acceptance stage.

[Lysabild]

Overpriced?.. Jesus, I'm speechless.

Personally looking forward to it, will buy it first chance and even if I didn't like it I'd buy it, because I like everything else they do and more money to Paradox is only a good thing my world.

Though I'll never see how they're shallow for giving what was requested a lot on their forums, to measly 5 euro for their spent time.

Edit: I mean jesus, did you even look at the dev diary and see what you're getting from free? Or all the good stuff they're giving Vicky2 and EU3 at the same time? Ungratefulness is the flavour of the month in here or what?

[Glowcat]

I'm not sure what gratefulness has to do with purchasing decisions. And for what it adds, I really don't think that's worth the 5 <insert currency here> that they're charging for it. Such a maneuver reeks of exploitation and a trend in gaming that's driving up prices. It's not that I feel they owe me anything, but I'm not a fan of that kind of business practice. Mostly my previous post was an apology for thinking the entire thing was an April Fools joke.

[Lord Dullard]

I have to admit it's a TERRIBLE DLC and I'm not sure why anybody would ever pay for it, considering how easy it is to just make the same sort of changes yourself. However, I don't begrudge them for it, since buying it is completely optional and you aren't missing anything by NOT buying it. Hell, I hope they sell a lot of the thing if it helps them to make more games like CK2 later.

[scriver]

€5 is not a measly sum by any means. It certainly isn't a fitting price for the amount of content the DLC provides.

[mainiac]

I'm not sure what gratefulness has to do with purchasing decisions. And for what it adds, I really don't think that's worth the 5 <insert currency here> that they're charging for it. Such a maneuver reeks of exploitation and a trend in gaming that's driving up prices. It's not that I feel they owe me anything, but I'm not a fan of that kind of business practice. Mostly my previous post was an apology for thinking the entire thing was an April Fools joke.

It's the exact opposite of that trend.  The trend has been to turn fairly central content into a DLC.  Large parts of the story might get left out of a rpg.

What this DLC is doing is giving you something completely ancillary to the main game.  (Strike the word "main" because unlike other companies, P'dox actually sells you the main game from the get go.)  Not having it in no way changes the core game experience.  It's pretty much the least exploitative dlc they could have offered.

[Glowcat]

It's the exact opposite of that trend.  The trend has been to turn fairly central content into a DLC.  Large parts of the story might get left out of a rpg.

What this DLC is doing is giving you something completely ancillary to the main game.  (Strike the word "main" because unlike other companies, P'dox actually sells you the main game from the get go.)  Not having it in no way changes the core game experience.  It's pretty much the least exploitative dlc they could have offered.

I suppose it's true that its importance is less than how DLC is handled in certain RPGs that have released recently. Still, I'm not a fan of how expensive developers are making minor additions lately. If it weren't for Steam sales I wouldn't touch most of 'em. Much better than other companies at least.

[mainiac]

They could charge a million dollars for a dlc for all I care, just don't make it a core game component.

[Denzi]

Seriously have to agree with Mainiac here. It's not as if by releasing the DLC Paradox is going to make CK2 less mod-able so that you have to buy the DLC to edit character stuff, right? So how can anyone complain about them making the DLC that their playerbase asked for? It's not exploitation it's doing exactly what your customers want you to do. One thing I've seen so many people miss about this DLC is the fact that they are coming out with a pretty big content patch at the same time. They're going to be improving on crusades and the like. Would you feel better if they made the character/dynasty editor free with the patch but charged you $5 for 'Improved Crusades DLC'? From how everyone (On the internet in general) keeps complaining about this DLC it sounds like that would be the preferred situation. Has EA really trained gamers that well?

[scriver]

We're not complaining about them making the char-gen a DLC, we're complaining about the DLC having such a damn unwarrantedly high price.

[Denzi]

We're not complaining about them making the char-gen a DLC, we're complaining about the DLC having such a damn unwarrantedly high price.

I wasn't speaking of Bay12 in general with my last statement, but I have to ask a question. Who has the right to say the price is too high? Sure you could argue the consumer has the right to say it costs too much, but you know how the consumer tells the developers that? They don't buy it.

At the end of the day the entire internet (that is interested in Paradox at all) is throwing a hissy fit over the price of an optional DLC that has no impact on the game's core features.

I'd love to hear how this DLC is not worth 5 dollars though. Give me some comparisons. Then go buy those things you are comparing to it and don't buy the DLC if they're such a better value. Take what I typically use as a comparason factor when looking at entertainment. Pick something you know has a stable price (say an average game or a movie) divide the price by the number of hours of entertainment you get from it and you can quickly find out how much bang you get for your buck. (Example, game with a 12 hour campaign at the new $60 price tag is $5/hour . A 2 hour film at lets say $20... $10/hour) If you take that into account then all you need for this DLC to be 'worth' it, is for it to last you one hour. I can almost guarantee you it will last you a lot more (Just how many hours of CK2 have you played? At a $40 price tag? I've seen anywhere from 30 to 200 hours) If you want to use those numbers ( $1.33/hour to $0.20/hour, assuming the previously mentioned 30 to 20 hours of gameplay) and assume this DLC's worth is being measured in a vacuum where your only other option for entertainment is to purchase a second copy of CK2 then we are looking at anywhere from 3.7594 hours of entertainment to make it 'worth your while' (easily how long you'd play a single 'game' of CK2 for) up to 25 hours. (Fun Fact, using these same calculations you can make sense out of how an MMO can be a great value for an entertainment budget, assuming you can find one you actually will want to play for more than 3 hours a month)

[jashman]

€5 is not a measly sum by any means.

It is to someone that would really enjoy the DLC.  Someone has to be buying all those $1.99 pointless outfits for Fable III as well, or I assume they wouldn't make/sell them. 

Have to say I'm very pleased with the direction Paradox has gone.  The list of free features upcoming would have constituted a full priced expansion in years past.  I'm big on modding Paradox games, and CKII is a step easier to mod than even CK, but I'd consider picking this one up on a sale.  In my eyes, the perfect DLC -- something I'd drop a few bucks on during a Steam sale simply to add a convenience to the game I could otherwise do.  I'm reticent to spend $20+ bucks at a theater or drop $8 on a beer at sporting event, but something I'd use repeatedly for a few bucks is nothing.  Shit, assuming it was on sale for nearly any percentage, it'd be less than I've spent on a whim at a convenience store.  And they put more time into the DLC creation than me refilling my diet soda.

So, agree to disagree about the price.

[scriver]

We're not complaining about them making the char-gen a DLC, we're complaining about the DLC having such a damn unwarrantedly high price.

I wasn't speaking of Bay12 in general with my last statement, but I have to ask a question. Who has the right to say the price is too high? Sure you could argue the consumer has the right to say it costs too much, but you know how the consumer tells the developers that? They don't buy it.

No. "Consumers" protest high prices, bad service, or whatever it is they are dissatisfied with, by voicing their dislike to the provider and other people alike, then not buying the product. Otherwise there is no feedback to the provider, they have no idea why the consumer choose to refuse the product, or even if the consumer ever even noticed there was a product to begin with.

I'd love to hear how this DLC is not worth 5 dollars though. Give me some comparisons.

Here's a comparison: I paid roughly €40 for the content in the original game. They demand €5 for what is a pittance of that content. It isn't a reasonable prize.

What's more, your "go buy that other thing that costs you less" logic doesn't apply either. Games aren't milk, I can't just go to another store or brand and get a cheaper bottle of the same stuff - not only are the games unique products in general, I certainly can't buy DLCs from any other producer than Paradox. Especially true since there aren't even any other developer making the kind of Grand Strategy games Paradox does, they have a monopoly on their niche.

Shit, assuming it was on sale for nearly any percentage, it'd be less than I've spent on a whim at a convenience store

That's nice for you, but for me €5 is just short of what my food budget ends up being most weeks. So yeah, agree to disagree.

[Rakonas]

That's nice for you, but for me €5 is just short of what my food budget ends up being most weeks. So yeah, agree to disagree.

To derail the topic further, what do you eat that you only spend 5 euros a week on food? Do you grow your own food or something?