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[breadbocks]

It's a double rainbow! But what does it MEAN?

[Noble Digger]

It means that it rained recently, now put down the bong, Shaggy!

[Josephus]

We can't maaaan, it's too intense.

[Krash]

Well, I don't think the difficulty of getting into the game is the same difficulty (or lack thereof) that older players complains about.

The difficulty for a new player is to understand the game interface, how to tell dwarves to do X or Y, how to master the basic features (farming, stockpiles etc.)

The difficulty that older player want is - most of the time - at the end of the game : harder siege, stronger HFS, less productive farming, and so on. Few of these things become relevant before the fort has reached a good size (80ish dwarves), so they don't concern new players : by the time they have a fort this big, most of them have a pretty frim grasp on how to play.

What this man said.  The problem is that the game gets easier and easier, instead of the other way around

I'll show some of my experience - someone relatively new to the game (although he likes to frequently refer to how old school a gamer he is) read a post talking about aquifers, misunderstood what was being said, and so immediately jumped onto the Suggestion Forum to argue against something he completely misunderstood about the game.  After being corrected, he then blamed Toady for him not understanding the game even though the misunderstanding had nothing to do with the game itself, but what he read in a forum post.  See here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61318.msg1394289#msg1394289

Funny, I see something completely different when I read that thread. 

[MaDeR Levap]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61318.msg1394289#msg1394289

Funny, I see something completely different when I read that thread.

Yeah, I get funnies too. I cannot see where someone blame Toady for their own problem. Kohaku, can you kindly link to one particular post that shows it?

[Hamster Man]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sorry - someone had to do it!

[Jordrake]

Y'know what my introduction was? The first-fortress guide on the wiki. And I didn't even read it the whole way through.
As soon as I figured out how digging worked, my first fort failed pretty damn hard. Then I started my second fortress, and it was one of my most successful forts ever. This was 40d, too, and I'd say 2010 is more understandable and easy to use.
What's my point?
The learning cliff keeps the plebs out.
For serious, I'm not a great gamer and nor am I that good at Dwarf Fortress. If you need the game to be more accessible, that means you are a worse/stupider gamer than me. That is not a good thing.

[NW_Kohaku]

Yeah, I get funnies too. I cannot see where someone blame Toady for their own problem. Kohaku, can you kindly link to one particular post that shows it?

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61013.msg1394269#msg1394269

[Krash]

Yeah, I get funnies too. I cannot see where someone blame Toady for their own problem. Kohaku, can you kindly link to one particular post that shows it?

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61013.msg1394269#msg1394269

So that's what you took offense at so much?  Wow. 

[NW_Kohaku]

So that's what you took offense at so much?  Wow.

Absolutely, he went out of his way to insult both Toady and the playerbase for his own misunderstanding.  Even after functionally admitting that he realized he was wrong, he still put the blame upon others for his own mistake. 

The "I saw something in the forums, and demanded it be changed before I actually looked at the game" part was annoying, but the fact that he turned it into a cause against the forumgoers who told him of his mistake rather than admit he was mistaken, when he knew he was, is what was really unforgivable.

[Willfor]

Absolutely, he went out of his way to insult both Toady and the playerbase for his own misunderstanding.  Even after functionally admitting that he realized he was wrong, he still put the blame upon others for his own mistake. 

The "I saw something in the forums, and demanded it be changed before I actually looked at the game" part was annoying, but the fact that he turned it into a cause against the forumgoers who told him of his mistake rather than admit he was mistaken, when he knew he was, is what was really unforgivable.

This is a very good example of why we can't have nice things, and why this topic exists in the first place.

[therahedwig]

I think in the end the only thing that can be done about this:

If you think someone is rude, instead of making a very special announcement about it, just say it t that persons face. Reply to them or PM them.
Because the worst that can happen is that you'll be told to fuck off. In which case the rest of the forumgoers will stand behind you.

Also, am I the only one thinking that the difficulty discussion is getting a wee bit off-topic?

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

We can't maaaan, it's too intense.

So Vivid

[NW_Kohaku]

If you think someone is rude, instead of making a very special announcement about it, just say it t that persons face. Reply to them or PM them.
Because the worst that can happen is that you'll be told to fuck off. In which case the rest of the forumgoers will stand behind you.

I've done this a few times, although I really should do it more, since I've let some topics get turned pretty far off course, including a couple of my own.

Also, am I the only one thinking that the difficulty discussion is getting a wee bit off-topic?

Which one?

[Shurhaian]

I think in the end the only thing that can be done about this:

If you think someone is rude, instead of making a very special announcement about it, just say it t that persons face. Reply to them or PM them.
Because the worst that can happen is that you'll be told to fuck off. In which case the rest of the forumgoers will stand behind you.

You're aware that e.g. the Suggestions forum specifically says NOT to take such things on yourself? As well as the Forum Guidelines?