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Author Topic: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...  (Read 4335 times)

eclipsetail

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2010, 08:13:36 pm »

As of yet unbreached aquifer.  I have very little stone and no mechanic (though I could just use an unskilled dwarf if I absolutly had to).

Anyways, the goblins eventually got bored and left.  I got a few lucky kills (throat shots), but most of them got away entirely unharmed.  I get it that wood is weak... that a wood bolt would likely shatter when it hit a metal shield... but looking through the combat logs, most of them were deflected by cloth... robes and cloaks and the like...

Thats a bit ridiculous.

Well now that they're gone you'll probably want to make a retract-bridge or some other kind of bridge.
Hopefully your next migrant wave will bring a mechanic.

Solace

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2010, 08:19:14 pm »

If he had wood he'd be way better off using it on cages.
Weeeell... depends how easy it is to get goblins to dodge traps. A single wooden cage will catch a single goblin, but a single wooden sword trap will eventually kill any number of goblins, if they walk back and forth over it enough.

EDIT: Yeah, cloth makes wolf bites "deflect' off you too. :P
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TheSummoner

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2010, 08:26:25 pm »

Yeah, well I'd rather be torn apart by wolves than goblins...
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assimilateur

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 09:04:20 pm »

but a single wooden sword trap will eventually kill any number of goblins

When a weapon trap kills something instantly, it gets jammed with the remains. I don't know if this always happens, but last time I've tried it happened often enough for your little theory not to work. So while it's theoretically possible for all your goblins to die away from your single weapon trap (so as not to jam it), but it's pretty damn unlikely.
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Porpoisepower

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 11:21:39 pm »

You have an aquifer? Build a few pumps, and fire hose those green skinned doofus to next tuesday. Or into a spike lined pit :D
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That's what DF needs, The gutbuster brigade.  Screw that elf and his cat. Thibbledorf Pwent is the real hero.

Solace

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 11:32:40 pm »

but a single wooden sword trap will eventually kill any number of goblins

When a weapon trap kills something instantly, it gets jammed with the remains. I don't know if this always happens, but last time I've tried it happened often enough for your little theory not to work. So while it's theoretically possible for all your goblins to die away from your single weapon trap (so as not to jam it), but it's pretty damn unlikely.
I meant by making them jump into pits, not the whole death by a thousand cuts you need to actually kill something with a wooden weapon. Speaking of, tether a dog near a pit, it also makes goblins dodge unfortunately.
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gtmattz

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 11:34:49 pm »

...tether a dog near a pit, it also makes goblins dodge.

Thanks for this tidbit, now, I am off to try some SCIENCE!
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RenoFox

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 06:23:43 pm »

In areas with plenty of wood, I sometimes use spiked wooden balls as a way to tire the enemy enough to engage safely. Ten balls per trap, and while none of them pierce armor, the goblins pass out from exhaustion while trying to block and dodge the whirlwind of pointy sticks.

Grendus

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 07:59:09 pm »

To pierce an aquifer, you need one pump for each orthogonal wall next to the staircase you're building - IE: 4 for a 1 tile staircase, 8 for a 2x2 tile staircase, 12 for 3x3, 16 for a 4x4. Pump water out of each orthogonal neighbor tile next to your staircase, and build walls. Pump the water back into the aquifer, it will accept an infinite amount of water in drainage (players routinely drain entire oceans into aquifers to build on the ocean floor). Once you have walls, dig two layers down (aquifers now leak into the tiles below them, which sucks bigtime) and enjoy.

It's a little confusing to me why you still haven't pierced the aquifer by the time of the first siege. Unless you embarked in a desert with no preparation, a single layer aquifer shouldn't be that hard to pierce. Heck, even a double layer aquifer isn't that hard to pierce, you just need a lot more pumps and a bigger set up. Bring lots of wood, or embark next to a mountain since they never have aquifers.
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cephalo

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2010, 07:42:34 am »

Without metal, you won't do anything to the goblins. In fact, until you get bronze at least, you will have bad results. Goblins usually have iron armor, and weapon traps with iron weapons will injure them about half the time. Creatures with natural weapons, even grizzly bears and tigers are nearly harmless to anything with armor.
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ledgekindred

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2010, 09:07:26 am »

Actually stonefall traps are pretty damned effective at least as of .10.  One lucky hit will stun a goblin and after only 3 or 4 hits, in my experience they will turn and run.  Plus they are stupidly cheap to make and set up since as mentioned they only take two rocks.  Set up a minefield of stonefall traps in front of your fort.  Get a mason to build a wall/corridor, forcing the goblins through a set path and set a mechanic going full time at nothing but mechanisms and traps and you can send even middling-sized sieges into a panic.

Strangely enough, every single goblin I've seen get hit by a stonefall trap has broken a floating rib.  Not sure why that is.  But it does make them pass out from the pain, which is the perfect time for even mediocre trained melee dwarves to move in and beat the crap out of them.
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I don't understand, though that is about right with anything DF related.
I just hope he dies the same death that all dwarfs deserve: liver disease.
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Solace

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2010, 12:38:59 pm »

Ah, I suddenly remember why I was planning on testing the effectiveness of green glass serrated disks. Trapped in a fortress with magma and tons of ore, but no anvil. Guess I'll find out, unless a dwarvan caravan makes it past the blockade actually carrying a dang anvil.
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drayath

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2010, 01:46:35 pm »

Been using glass weapon traps recentantly  (x.10), and glass serrated disks seem to be deflected all the time. On the other hand glass spiked balls and glass spikes seem to work reasonably well, with the spicked balls breaking bones, and the spikes chipping bone and for some strange reason regularly breaking the lower or upper spine... (i do have a few hundred glass weapons in traps as many hits still bounce).
Obviously after each goblin attack one or two ex-goblin metal weapon in each new trap makes them more lethal.



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TheSummoner

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2010, 02:24:02 pm »

It's a little confusing to me why you still haven't pierced the aquifer by the time of the first siege.

Ambush actually... I've got a bad habit of referring to any organized hostility as a siege, so I'm sorry if I was misleading.

Since posting this, I've breached the aquifer and started my steelwork.  I still find it astounding that wood can't pierce cloth and hate having to use even a single bar of my precious steel for bolts (I am working on a melee force, but they aren't trained enough to protect me yet), but atleast I've got a bit more killing power now.
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Daskinor

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Re: I knew they sucked now... But I never imagined they were THAT bad...
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2010, 09:39:57 am »

Seems like some mighty fine live-fire training for your Siege Operators if you ask me - a firing range with a wall/channel combo is all well and good, but theres nothing like a target that goes crinkle, crunch, splat and that screams when hit to inspire your siegers to hitherto unknown feats of skill and enthusiasm for their art.

Any group of goblins standing in one place for long enough is really just begging for a way to die that involves projectiles at high speeds. Or magma!
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