Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Here are all the methods of preventing a blow that I can think of without making too many variations.

1) Blocking an attack: Stopping the path of an attack from reaching its destination
2) Dodging an attack: Moving the subject of an attack out of the path
3) Striking the Opponent first: Injuring or killing the origin so it cannot follow through
4) Make Attacking disadvantagous: Possitioning yourself so that hitting is unlikely or counter attack is very likely
5) Make Striking disadvantagous: possitioning yourself so a blow could be a bad idea.
6) Create a Double Bind: Create a situation where both practitioners would die from an attack.
7) Destroying/damaging the weapon: Attacking the method used to kill can also work
Cool) Removing the weapon: Removing the means of attack from the opponent

Also despite there being many weapons they all seem to have very similar patterns of attack. It is more in the techniques of the fighters themselves where most of the varience is born.

I would add one from Aikido/grappling arts in general... "Accepting the attack" is the only way I could put it. You don't counter the energy, nor do you dodge it, nor do you just strike back, you... move with it. Encourage it, even, while making sure that while you're still connected to it, it can't hurt you.

Example; someone throws a roundhouse at me, my first instinct (I hope) would be to step towards them and in the direction they're swinging while catching their striking arm under my armpit, pinning it to the side and twisting to "throw" them in the direction they were already moving.

[marcusbjol]

"Edge Control" is something that is VERY basic.  The hilt is made such that it is difficult to swing and not have the edge in the right direction.  I knew every time I struck flat, and called it accordingly, but this did not happen more than once every 3 months.

I have a feeling that that's an artifact of how the specific kinds of competitions you engage in.  If you find a tameshigiri practitioner and ask them about edge control, they're unlikely to call it basic.  We're not talking about striking with your blade rotated 90 degrees from ideal; we're talking about striking with your blade rotated a couple of degrees from ideal.

Really, bringing up the Japanese art of target test cutting?  This was never used in combat.  It was lets see how many peasants this sword could cut down in one swing.

A couple of degrees from "ideal" doesnt really matter.  Maybe 10 or so sure.  But this is trained out quickly and is all controlled by the wrist and can be adjusted mid-swing.  Someone in the heat of battle will block any incoming attack unless they are sure they they will survive it.  And the heat of battle, it would be near impossible to tell if your opponent's edge control is off.  So once again, this is not valuable.

Not enough to make it worthwhile to calculate.  Defense is all about being able to block the incoming shot, not being where the shot is, or being in the right position so the shot does not have power.  That last one is true skill, but power is generated by the swing and if one is too close before the weapon is swung, it doesn't matter the weapon.

Let's suppose you've been practicing kendo your whole life.  You're an expert.  Then, you have to fight somebody who has a spear instead of a sword.

That is a very stupid "master".  Any "master" that fights a weapon form will fight against other weapon types, that is if he plans to use his skills and live.   

What sort of techniques have you carefully honed over the years?  You've dedicated yourself to the art of predicting strikes.  You know the ideal place for a sword point to be, and how to deny that position to your opponent.

There is little difference between thrust of a spear and a sword for defense.  I have no idea waht you mean by "the ideal place for a sword point to be".  That "ideal place" implies there is one spot to do damage with, which is VERY incorrect.

How much time have you, as our imaginary kendo master, spent practicing the art of getting inside the reach of an opponent with a much longer weapon?  Not a lot.

That "master" has no place on the battle field if he has not trained against unlike weapons.

What should you do if somebody is shooting at you?  My recommendation is to get prone.  What's the last thing you should do if somebody is trying to poke you with a sharp stick?

LOL.  Actually, its harder to hit a prone target that is 9ft away from you with a spear than when he standing.  That is what going prone is for, to make your available target area smaller.  Absolutely, going prone is the wrong defense.  But no one said "defending against a spear is like defending against a gun".  You said "It was like shooting a gun", and it is.

With all due respect Nil, I recommend you go out and fight for a while before making these assertions.

[Talhoffer92]

If you think about it in very general terms, basic terms, there's only a few types of weapon:

1)Thing that make your fist hit harder. This actually kinda includes small daggers and knives as well as saps and brass knuckles and the like.

2)Sticks of various length: Spears, swords, staffs (literal sticks!), rifle used as a club or with a bayonet(then it's a spear!).

2a)Sticks with something on the end: Axes, clubs with spikes, halberds, pollaxes etc. The main difference from 2) is that you can use the "thing on the end" to hook your opponent.

3)Shooting weapons.  Only difference in practical terms between most of them is rate of shot.

There's only so many things the humandwarf body can do, and when you consider that almost all weapons have a similar basic shape, it starts to make sense that training with and against one type gains you skill with all types. The Medieval German fighting tradition taught the longsword as the basis for all weapons, with wrestling as the foundation for all fighting. (google my user name, also Leichtenaur)

[Nil Eyeglazed]

With all due respect Nil, I recommend you go out and fight for a while before making these assertions.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude.  Please forgive me if I've come across that way.  I probably haven't been very clear.

[Neonivek]

" You don't counter the energy, nor do you dodge it, nor do you just strike back, you... move with it. Encourage it, even, while making sure that while you're still connected to it, it can't hurt you"

I thought of that already. You still take the attack. It is also known as "rolling with the blow"

[FreakyCheeseMan]

" You don't counter the energy, nor do you dodge it, nor do you just strike back, you... move with it. Encourage it, even, while making sure that while you're still connected to it, it can't hurt you"

I thought of that already. You still take the attack. It is also known as "rolling with the blow"

I was only commenting on that one list of yours... didn't see "Rolling with it" anywhere on it, though it's always possible I'm having a brain far.

[Neonivek]

It isn't on the list, but it isn't avoiding the blow it is softening the blow.

[marcusbjol]

With all due respect Nil, I recommend you go out and fight for a while before making these assertions.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude.  Please forgive me if I've come across that way.  I probably haven't been very clear.

You didnt come across that way at all Nil (if anything I did). 

Just imaging an arm chair quarterback having a convo with a pro quarterback (not that you are I are either).  At some point the pro is gonna say "ya just need to be there to get it".

The problem with most martial arts is they focus on one weapon vs itself.  After a while, that martial art turns into a sport.  Case in point, Kendo.  The shots that count are mostly upper body, so that is what one learns to defend against.  Kendo does not teach how to defend the lower legs at all. 

All the sporting styles have similar problems.  One of my styles (SCA armored) ignores wrists, hands and below the knee.  I do not know hot to safely attack the foot with a non thrusting weapon, nor do I even worry about an attack there.  The other style (SCA Rapier), all targets are valid, so I know to watch my feet and theirs.

But we have digressed from the point of the post.  If there is an anti-weapon skill, the users will (ab)use it too.

[Neonivek]

The problem with most martial arts is they focus on one weapon vs itself

Actually a lot of martial arts at one time included unarmed vs. Armed (I am trying to think of ones that don't... Boxing is one). They just don't always teach it because it is outdated or requires too much skill to be put into practice.

When are you going to fight someone with a sword or quarterstaff in the middle of the street?

[cephalo]

Perhaps it is due to my ignorance, but I have to agree with Nil that going prone would not be adequate defense against a spear. Unless you're trying to evoke mercy perhaps but I haven't seen alot of that coming from goblins.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I still say going prone is a crap defense against a gun, too, if you're an unarmed fighter.

[Neonivek]

I still say going prone is a crap defense against a gun, too, if you're an unarmed fighter.

Going Prone makes you a smaller target and allows you to hide behind cover.

It really depends on the situation but going prone isn't the worst thing you can do. For the most part you don't want to engave an armed assailant if you are unarmed.

[Grendus]

It depends on his mobility and focus. Going prone against a drive by is a fairly good idea, as it's tougher for him to stop and hard to aim at that speed. Going prone against an armed attacker on foot, not so much, if you go prone without cover he can just aim lower. Same thing goes for targeting - if you're caught in the crossfire, going prone is a good idea, you're less likely to catch a stray bullet and they have no reason to adjust their aim to hit a lower target. If you're the target, going prone is a crap idea, second only to standing around slackjawed. You'd be better off ducking and running. Of course, if you get into an actual situation like this, all bets are off.

I don't think anti-weapon skills would really add much. The main problems with sieges right now is that they're poorly executed. Goblins come in smaller numbers than you have (as a general rule, the sieging army should be two to three times the size of the defending army) and make a beeline for the nearest target. Meanwhile, the dwarves are feasting on ridiculously large harvests of mushrooms that require no fertilizer to produce. Historically, sieges were dangerous because they cut off supplies from the large fields around the castle. You can't threaten a society that can produce metric tons of food with little land and no sunlight with starvation, it just flat doesn't work. Making goblins better at defending against the WotM would just make the player diversify their army, and then the gobbos are still squishy.

[marcusbjol]

The problem with most martial arts is they focus on one weapon vs itself

Actually a lot of martial arts at one time included unarmed vs. Armed (I am trying to think of ones that don't... Boxing is one). They just don't always teach it because it is outdated or requires too much skill to be put into practice.

When are you going to fight someone with a sword or quarterstaff in the middle of the street?

It all depends on how often one looks for it.  If you want to learn how to fight in a medieval style, most areas (in the US at least) have a medieval fighter practice once a week within 50 miles.  In southern California, I can find fighter practices sunday, tuesday, wednesdays and thrusdays and tournaments of some form or another on Saturdays. 

For tournament practice, the most common style is sword n board, but there will be a person with 2 swords out often, the rest are a little more esoteric.  War practice (much less often) will focus on sheild walls and spears/pole arms behind. 

At no point have I recommended going prone if someone is using a spear on you.  The prone thing was a thought process of:

Using a spear is like using a gun (the questionable premise)
Someone has a spear
That someone is attacking me
If they are using a gun/spear, going prone is the thing to do.  (the questionable response)

Just because using a spear is similar to using a gun does not mean one should respond in a similar fashion.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I still say going prone is a crap defense against a gun, too, if you're an unarmed fighter.

Going Prone makes you a smaller target and allows you to hide behind cover.

It really depends on the situation but going prone isn't the worst thing you can do. For the most part you don't want to engave an armed assailant if you are unarmed.

Well, we're looking at the *martial* skills of defending yourself when unarmed- yeah, going prone is great if you have a gun and can shoot back (which isn't the situation described) or when he might just leave, or give you a chance to run (which isn't the skill described). But if you're in the relevant scenario- you, unarmed, vs. a gun-wielder you have to fight- going prone will just let him walk up and shoot you.