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[SalmonGod]

Rarer metals, huh? I hope they're not TOO rare. I honestly couldn't handle a military wearing nothing but bone and leather.

You're not truly metal unless you're decked out in bone and leather!!

[MrWiggles]

Well, 40d was to rare but .31 I think is over saturated.

Maybe we're down the middle now. We're going to need reasons to trade, and that means having fort sites having lack of hopefully critical resources.

A fort shouldn't be able to do every industry from the fort site.

[Styledatol]

I'm glad metals are being reduced. Hopefully back to the way it was 40d: It made the game more challenging, not to mention the fact that striking a metal vein was exciting. 30 Military Dwarfs in full steel armour? Maybe after 5 years of gametime.

[Blind Wolf]

Rarer metals, huh? I hope they're not TOO rare. I honestly couldn't handle a military wearing nothing but bone and leather.

You're not truly metal unless you're decked out in bone and leather!!

They may be more metal, but they'll also be extremely vulnerable. I'd prefer not to lose my axelords to a goblin ambush because they weren't wearing good armor.

That does give me a good idea, though. Raw recruit suicide squads decked in cheap bone armor. Don't have enough time to pull the levers to your retractable bridge and magma trap before the goblins get in? Send in the suicide squad to keep them distracted while the gears whir into life (I bet a hundred dwarfbucks everyone else has already thought of this.)

Well, 40d was to rare but .31 I think is over saturated.

Maybe we're down the middle now. We're going to need reasons to trade, and that means having fort sites having lack of hopefully critical resources.

A fort shouldn't be able to do every industry from the fort site.

The caravans better start bringing more metal than they do currently, then. Even if you ask the liason to bring some iron, the traders never bring nearly enough to support an industry. It would take years to outfit your squads. I do agree that there's an over-saturation of precious metals in the current version, though.

[Sowelu]

Yay!  I heartily approve of less metal.

But I also want them to bring more metal to trade, too.  Yes, I very much look forwards to improved trading...especially when I can say "I'll pay you 500% normal rate.  BRING A WHOLE LOT."  Then again, they should charge a lot more for everything anyway...

Affording enough steel to deck out your squad in armor should be a major challenge!  It shouldn't, however, take ten years for the traders to show up with that much.

[Blind Wolf]

Yay!  I heartily approve of less metal.

But I also want them to bring more metal to trade, too.  Yes, I very much look forwards to improved trading...especially when I can say "I'll pay you 500% normal rate.  BRING A WHOLE LOT."  Then again, they should charge a lot more for everything anyway...

Affording enough steel to deck out your squad in armor should be a major challenge!  It shouldn't, however, take ten years for the traders to show up with that much.

I think I can agree on this point. I don't think steel should be incredibly easy to produce (though I'm sure there would be contention over the degree of difficulty). My main concern is getting enough metal, any metal, to fully equip your squads without (great) diffculty.

[MrWiggles]

Yay!  I heartily approve of less metal.

But I also want them to bring more metal to trade, too.  Yes, I very much look forwards to improved trading...especially when I can say "I'll pay you 500% normal rate.  BRING A WHOLE LOT."  Then again, they should charge a lot more for everything anyway...

Affording enough steel to deck out your squad in armor should be a major challenge!  It shouldn't, however, take ten years for the traders to show up with that much.

I think I can agree on this point. I don't think steel should be incredibly easy to produce (though I'm sure there would be contention over the degree of difficulty). My main concern is getting enough metal, any metal, to fully equip your squads without (great) diffculty.

I dont want Caravans to bring in any more metal  then what their origin sites say they can trade.

The difficulties of the various industriues should vary depending on where your fort is.

[Blind Wolf]

I dont want Caravans to bring in any more metal  then what their origin sites say they can trade.

The difficulties of the various industriues should vary depending on where your fort is.

I'm not sure how I feel about your first point. It sounds good in theory, but I'd have to see some numbers before I can form an opinion.

Sure, difficulty should be a lot higher on glaciers or in the middle of a desert, but a complete lack weapons-grade metal is beyond what I'd call "reasonably difficult" and into the realm of "absurd". I suppose it wouldn't be a problem if you found native gold or something, but that's probably a lot rarer, too.

[Jiri Petru]

They may be more metal, but they'll also be extremely vulnerable. I'd prefer not to lose my axelords to a goblin ambush because they weren't wearing good armor.

You're forgetting the goblin ambush will be subject to the same rarity rules as you. If metals are rare, the ambushing goblins will probably be using leather and bone. At that point, even finding a copper vein would be a joy.

It's all relative, really. A lot of players now need to have steel because they feel they're too vulnerable otherwise. But if your enemies start using less quality equipment, even you can be more lenient about materials. At least I believe this is where the game is heading.

[Sowelu]

Sure, difficulty should be a lot higher on glaciers or in the middle of a desert, but a complete lack weapons-grade metal is beyond what I'd call "reasonably difficult" and into the realm of "absurd".

Which is why metals now show up on the site finder.  If you want to do it anyway, that's a choice you make.

[thvaz]

It would be cool if after conquering a steel-producing fortress, goblins or humans had acess to limited quantities of the metal. They could use the steel available to forge weapons, but not producing any.

[Blind Wolf]

They may be more metal, but they'll also be extremely vulnerable. I'd prefer not to lose my axelords to a goblin ambush because they weren't wearing good armor.

You're forgetting the goblin ambush will be subject to the same rarity rules as you. If metals are rare, the ambushing goblins will probably be using leather and bone. At that point, even finding a copper vein would be a joy.

It's all relative, really. A lot of players now need to have steel because they feel they're too vulnerable otherwise. But if your enemies start using less quality equipment, even you can be more lenient about materials. At least I believe this is where the game is heading.

You're probably right about leather. But if goblins, humans and dwarves are supposed to be iron age civilizations, I doubt bone would occur very often. I'm not that picky, really. Even copper works for me.

Sure, difficulty should be a lot higher on glaciers or in the middle of a desert, but a complete lack weapons-grade metal is beyond what I'd call "reasonably difficult" and into the realm of "absurd".

Which is why metals now show up on the site finder.  If you want to do it anyway, that's a choice you make.

Yeah, I know. I'm just talking about general game balance here. Besides, if I read it right, it doesn't really tell you how much iron there will be so it could still be very limited on your map.

I just need a reason to blab about DF some. I often bemoan the fact that I don't have discussions with you guys more often. 

[madjoe5]

Relying on traders for metal shouldn't be the basis of the game. Although making ores less abundant is good, I don't think that traders should bring more metal; or any if at all. They should ship finished sets of armor, at vary levels of quality. I think its more absurd that all the civilizations in the world just export raw metal to you just because you ask.

"Oh, crap, a player controlled fortress was made. Alright, all metal forging has to stop so that we can ship our metal to them instead."

Now that doesn't make much sense now does it.

[Sowelu]

"Oh, crap, a player controlled fortress was made. Alright, all metal forging has to stop so that we can ship our metal to them instead."

Now that doesn't make much sense now does it.

Depends on how much you're willing to spend.

Also, I would imagine that civilizations would build a lot of *mines* that are smaller than fortresses, focused exclusively on digging out minerals and exporting them for the greater glory of whoever sent out the expedition group.

[Scarpa]

Relying on traders for metal shouldn't be the basis of the game. Although making ores less abundant is good, I don't think that traders should bring more metal; or any if at all. They should ship finished sets of armor, at vary levels of quality. I think its more absurd that all the civilizations in the world just export raw metal to you just because you ask.

"Oh, crap, a player controlled fortress was made. Alright, all metal forging has to stop so that we can ship our metal to them instead."

Now that doesn't make much sense now does it.

It depends on the skill level of the civ trading with you. They may not be able to forge effectively and prefer to ship their raw metal to you in return for higher quality finished goods.

Or they may just be able to produce raw material at a far faster rate than finished goods and therefore have a surplus.

I also like that it's going to be global so you won't have endless armies of goblins encased in iron anymore. Presumably a fortress with ample metal supply will be truly wealthy and powerful.