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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 1597222 times)

shadow_archmagi

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1665 on: November 02, 2010, 09:25:56 am »

Oh no

The days of "And thus the demon did lift his warhammer, and the elf Lorenotomo Thistleberries was cruelly mauled; his third toe left foot was obliterated!" engravings are OVER!?
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invention is every dwarf's middle name
that means that somewhere out there theres a dwarf named Urist Invention Mcinvention.

Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1666 on: November 02, 2010, 09:27:13 am »

Oh no

The days of "And thus the demon did lift his warhammer, and the elf Lorenotomo Thistleberries was cruelly mauled; his third toe left foot was obliterated!" engravings are OVER!?

Naw who says it still doesn't do that in World Gen?

Also who says you cannot miss a location and strike a different spot instead? Miss a foot and hit a toe for example.
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TKTom

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1667 on: November 02, 2010, 12:16:32 pm »

Now that there is a rudimentary AI for aimed attacking: Will it be long before we can order dwarves to capture enemies rather than kill them? i.e have dwarves attempt blunt strikes to the head and then cart off the unconcious foe to an empty cage?
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nordak

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1668 on: November 02, 2010, 03:00:01 pm »

What I get from the aimed shots is that you won't have invincible unconcious enemies laying around.  Thus fixing the AI's whack them till they're dead syndrome since incapacitated enemies will die immediately after being KO'ed.  So no longer will Urist McHammer being wailing on  Gob mcpain well after the battle is over.

Have lashers been nerfed?  I read everything Toady posted and didn't see it mentioned.  Just wanted to know.
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Exerpt from townbrush.txt by Internet Kraken:

"Nobody wants to live in Townbrush, and for good reason. Almost everyone that has come to Townbrush has been eaten, stabbed, crushed, drowned, hacked, incinerated, or beaten to death with an octopre skin backpack. When we're not under siege, we're being attacked by Forgotten Beasts. And when we're not being attacked by Forgotten Beasts, there's probably a zombie whale crushing someone to death in the dining room."

tfaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1669 on: November 02, 2010, 03:40:23 pm »

Nope.
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I still think that the whole fortress should be flooded with magma the moment you try dividing by zero.
This could be a handy way of teaching preschool children mathematics.

PermanentInk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1670 on: November 02, 2010, 03:55:37 pm »

If I'm understanding correctly, it seems like unless you specifically choose an aimed shot against an unconscious opponent, it will take just as long to kill them as before.  It would be a useful option to let us use the same automatic target selection for vulnerable opponents that the AI does; if I want to do the same headshot every time, why should I have to go digging through menus to do it?
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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1671 on: November 02, 2010, 05:56:43 pm »

I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the interface in toady's screenshot seems alot more straightforward then the wrestling one, given each part corresponds to a letter, I doubt it has more then 2 pages of choices.
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OneTwentySix

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1672 on: November 02, 2010, 06:15:22 pm »

I started out with a few questions, which turned into a very long post which was mostly suggestions, so I'll post that part separately in the suggestions thread, here:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=69644.0


There's a number problems with caravans as the game stands right now.  With the improvements to sites and caravans coming up, will any of these things change?

One of my big issues with caravans is that there really isn't a lot that a caravan can bring that you can't produce yourself, and better (exceptions being elven animals and rare gems, and if I understand right, rare gems will be a limited resource now).  A fort younger than a year or two might need help with food, booze, or weapons/armor, but once you get your forges and workshops set up and have people manning them, you can produce anything you need, and at higher quality than the caravans.  Will this change with any of the future improvements?

Item values are also pretty crazy; are you planning on rebalancing any of this?  You can buy out whole caravans with a few roasts, or a bin or two of rejected steel armor (keeping the best quality stuff for your dwarves).  Aside from the first year, I never need to produce trade goods, just trading second tier armor or dead invader gear.  On top of that, some of the treasures from the real world are extremely underwhelming.  Copper is common and more or less junk, silver is just as common and only slightly better junk, gold is common and while not junk, is only worth anything to the player because of the association with real world gold (where even an ounce of gold is worth a small fortune, never mind a solid gold statue).  Platinum is rare but not significantly more valuable.  Gems, on the other hand, are rarer, but not worth doing anything with because the trouble outweighs the value.  Overall, metals and their alloys, unless used for weapons or armor, simply aren’t worth using because they’re barely more valuable than rock (or food.) 

Finally, will you ever switch over to a more currency-based trade system?  Bartering works to a point, but it's kind of silly to imagine a caravan working entirely on bartering in a world with currency.  It'd be nice to trade a bunch of things and get a chest full of gold, silver, and copper in exchange.  It'd be especially nice in adventure mode, being able to buy and sell things off of the barter system, or even to raid a caravan and take their gold.

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darkflagrance

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1673 on: November 02, 2010, 06:19:25 pm »

I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the interface in toady's screenshot seems alot more straightforward then the wrestling one, given each part corresponds to a letter, I doubt it has more then 2 pages of choices.

Unless you're fighting centipedes.

Finally, will you ever switch over to a more currency-based trade system?  Bartering works to a point, but it's kind of silly to imagine a caravan working entirely on bartering in a world with currency.  It'd be nice to trade a bunch of things and get a chest full of gold, silver, and copper in exchange.  It'd be especially nice in adventure mode, being able to buy and sell things off of the barter system, or even to raid a caravan and take their gold.

Since you're often trading your goods/resources for caravan goods/resources, and there is no real economy within the fort nor any way to determine which dwarf receives coins, barter is more efficient. However, I will allow that if you have an excess of goods to buy or sell, coins would be useful to make up the difference.
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...as if nothing really matters...
   
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ManaUser

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1674 on: November 02, 2010, 06:37:50 pm »

I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the interface in toady's screenshot seems alot more straightforward then the wrestling one, given each part corresponds to a letter, I doubt it has more then 2 pages of choices.
Yes, we noticed. Also Toady reported cleaning up the wrestling interface in the previous update, so presumably it uses about the same system now. Big improvement.
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Miuramir

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1675 on: November 02, 2010, 06:52:54 pm »

Quote from: Jiri Petru
Why do the towers use ramps instead of stairs?
(And speaking of it, all the other adventurer mode buildings.)

I think of the X stairs as more rickety spiral staircases, but aside from the tower, the only one I can think of is the new labyrinth, which uses stairs.  I also didn't like the thought of a battle being fought up a tower with the defenders always being directly above in a row, especially if arrows work down through multiple stair tiles.

I'm not sure where the "rickety" comes from, as most castle spiral staircases are extremely solid.  Aside from the space-saving properties, the defensive design was significant; the usual spiral was arranged so that right-handed defenders above could brace their shield against the central column, and swing their sword in an arc that worked with the arc of the stairs, in addition to the advantage conveyed by height.  In contrast, attackers from below were at a height/angle disadvantage to start with, but additionally had a much more restricted arc to operate their sword due to the central column, and no easy way to brace themselves against a shove from above.  The design also prevented more than one rank of attackers being brought to bear, as the spiral broke line of sight for ranged weapons and rendered polearms too unwieldy to be practical (if they would even fit at all).  In short, they were ubiquitous precisely because they were a major architectural element that allowed one well armed man to quite literally hold off a small army, as they were forced to come at him one at a time under seriously disadvantageous conditions. 

An excellent ancient example of a spiral staircase for reasons of space rather than defense is Trajan's Column; while they were used occasionally beforehand, its construction in 113 AD vastly popularized the form, and it remains sturdy today nearly two millennia later.  Even when constructed of wood rather than carved or constructed of stone, they can be quite strong; see this example from Salisbury Cathedral for example.

Of course, as castles evolved into chateau and thence into stately homes / mansions, the staircases evolved as well.  Being able to put in something like the Chateau de Chambord double helix stairs in would not only provide potentially better pathing, but an attractive and interesting architectural feature to set an elaborate building or delving above the ordinary. 
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1676 on: November 02, 2010, 07:04:39 pm »

People please only green the actual questions. Toady reads the reasoning and arguments that accompany them anyway but Green is for the plain question stuff. With all the green it also can be hard for toady to make out your questions.
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Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1677 on: November 02, 2010, 07:22:13 pm »

I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the interface in toady's screenshot seems alot more straightforward then the wrestling one, given each part corresponds to a letter, I doubt it has more then 2 pages of choices.

Each page has it's own letters, i.e. if the first page is a through o, the second page is also a through o. Most of the menus in Adventure mode work like this.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1678 on: November 02, 2010, 09:00:30 pm »

Quote from: Jiri Petru
Why do the towers use ramps instead of stairs?
(And speaking of it, all the other adventurer mode buildings.)

I think of the X stairs as more rickety spiral staircases, but aside from the tower, the only one I can think of is the new labyrinth, which uses stairs.  I also didn't like the thought of a battle being fought up a tower with the defenders always being directly above in a row, especially if arrows work down through multiple stair tiles.

I'm not sure where the "rickety" comes from, as most castle spiral staircases are extremely solid.

He meant that those particular stairs (the 'X' up/down stairs) are rickety because they're physically insubstantial (projectiles and falling creatures pass right through).
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rex mortis

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1679 on: November 03, 2010, 02:55:19 am »

Perhaps that is something that ought to change?
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