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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 1612484 times)

Baughn

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #225 on: July 06, 2010, 06:50:21 am »

Once there is a notion of relative wealth, will that include dwarf-mode economics, so we don't have to build buckets for our dwarves to sleep in?
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Psieye

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #226 on: July 06, 2010, 07:20:00 am »

Quote from: Greiger
Though I do have one question.  In an adventurer made structure (or site or whathaveyou) will items inside still be scattered around to the hills?  Or will that be removed for adventure made sites?  Removed entirely?  Removed only in locations where it doesn't make sense?(Fully sealed underground rooms, etc)

It'll probably start with the removal of the scattering mechanic for the adv sites.  We have to be a little careful with your things.  After that though, there should be some reemergence of theft/scattering depending on the qualities of the site.  There's a balance to be struck, because it would be fun in a sense to use the villain hunting process to have a chance to track down the guy that took your stuff, but it would be incredibly annoying to have to do that very often (or even a few times).
That sounds like it could be balanced by a "crime rate" variable for the region/locale you built your site in. If a player builds his site within walking distance of a thieves den, that's just asking to be robbed just so the player can track them down. Though I suppose there's also the question of non-sentient thieves, like Rhesus Macaques.
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Ratbert_CP

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #227 on: July 06, 2010, 08:39:48 am »

We don't have a lot of specifics here yet.  The idea has simply been judged feasible and fun and something we want to do, especially since it relates to boats and siege engines as well.  It'll certainly involve the ability to move a section of fortress complete with items, units, buildings, stockpiles etc., because a boat or siege tower would also want to do that.  The work in adventure mode has mostly prepared the game for those kinds of coordinate shifts, though there are probably some weird exceptions.  If there are rolling siege towers, there will probably be absurd wind-powered self-contained fortresses with levers that can be set to change the wheels and get them going in any of the four directions.  For walking ones, I'm not sure.  If you have a dual lift that can alternately anchor on each leg, and there were something set up to get the lifted leg sliding forward, and a way to get the slider slid forward contained in both or one of the legs, it might work, but I'm not mechanically-minded and really have no idea what exactly is going to pop out of this stuff.

Rotating etc. walls should be possible, and we'd like to move beyond specific predefined constructions to allow you a bit of creative freedom (so that you'd be building your wall crushing traps from a few pieces and somewhere in that process you define the direction, etc).  Having the dwarves understand how triggers open their way for them is still beyond what I can do, but things that act like the current lever-operated doors are fine.

Hexapods would work better, especially if you start factoring in weight, balance and support characteristics.

Personally, I think that's overthinking things.  Can we have a goblin fry-basket made of magma safe wall and floor grates that we can place and/or trap creatures in, that we can then lower into a convenient pool of magma? (Also handy for elves, nobles and insane dwarfs)
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #228 on: July 06, 2010, 08:50:45 am »

Also, will grates eventually be able to support other grates as if they were all one giant grate?
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Ratbert_CP

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #230 on: July 06, 2010, 09:24:03 am »

Are there any roadmap/plans to move more game interactions out to the RAW files?  Specifically, the ability to require certain/custom nobles to enable certain/custom workshops?  Or better, the ability to require a (specific?) third-party to cause a reaction?  I ask on behalf of Academia...
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Urist Imiknorris

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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
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YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

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If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #232 on: July 06, 2010, 09:55:27 am »

Toady you spoke of "Boulders" Buried in the soil. Does that include Multi-tile boulders like "Glacial boulders"? Basic Glacial geology would also be neat and would add to realism.
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Psieye

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #233 on: July 06, 2010, 11:49:18 am »

Will the new crushing traps with moving sections have the same 'atomsmashing' effect as raised bridges do now? Or will you get to uh... loot pancakes of whatever you killed?
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #234 on: July 06, 2010, 12:13:21 pm »

well gravity and contact-areas for objects are your friends. Speaking of which - In addition to Psieye's question: Wouldt it be possible to remove atom-smashing for bridges and replace it by actual crushing? 
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #235 on: July 06, 2010, 12:47:33 pm »

Quote
Quote
Quote from: smjjames

    (waterproof axles)
    Could you explain this? Do you mean a way where you could have a rubber gasket or something around an axle someplace or at the attachment point to power compartmentalized mechanisms? Or maybe have a mechanism which is compartmentalized, but has am extension through a waterproof barrier which the axle is attatched to? Those ideas may be beyond the era that you want DF to be in, but hey. I certainly wouldn't doubt Dwarven ingenuity and if they can create a water based computer, then I'm sure they can create waterproof axles/mechanisms.


If I understand the problem, it's that the current axles are prone to flooding because water can flow through them, and people want to have a tile that has both an axle and through which fluid cannot pass.  Like many of the mechnical things, I don't really have solid specific implementation ideas right now, but it seemed like a reasonably easy and good target, especially because it has been requested in the past.  If the basic scenario just isn't feasible, I won't do it, probably, but it seems like a problem that should have a solution that isn't too modern, at least at some rough level of efficiency and in water shallow enough for high pressure not to be an issue.

While rubber didn't make its way into the West until much more recently (especially after vulcanization was developed), it was used for centuries by Mesoamerican and probably some South American tribes, so an argument might be made that using rubber wouldn't be too modern.

Only problem though, is that rubber trees (which do exist in DF) are tropical and most of the time, depending on the map, it might not even be available, and we lack a way of harvesting stuff besides wood from trees for now. An alternative could be to make some UG plant (which the dwarves and goblins would only have access to however) which is used in some sort of reaction to make rubber.

As far as seals go, I'm sure there are people around the forums who have a good knowledge of mechanics or a good research session could help out here. Maybe some sort of 'building' that acts like a door (with a hatchway to allow pathing) and a gearbox at the same time where you attatch axles to any of the 6 sides.

Rubber wouldn't work with magma though, and neither would the current wooden axles.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #236 on: July 06, 2010, 01:07:12 pm »

Will you be adding in some code to handle worn materials protecting the wearer from various dangerous elements? Things like dragon scale armor protecting from firebreath or an artifact mask that protects against poisonous vapor would be fun.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #237 on: July 06, 2010, 01:15:56 pm »

Quote from: MrWiggles
I notice that form the Dev pages, that Squad Formations weren't listed. Has that been pushed backed even further?

Yeah, within the larger military goals, we weren't sure what the best spot is, so we're just letting them float.  It's something we want to do, but they don't have a home yet.
Surely a catchall "other" category would be superior to leaving stuff off the list?

Quote
For training, especially with people throwing rocks for 5000 turns and so on, that kind of thing might as well be part of the pass-a-season mechanic, so that if you want to meditate on your left hook under a waterfall for 20 days, you can go ahead and do that.  The tradeoffs would be your character's age, possible reputation fade, leaving whatever sites you've raised going fallow if you aren't working out from them, etc., so it shouldn't be an utterly unreasonable/spoily mechanic.
I reckon it would be best to make the gain from this significantly affected by your current skill. It would be kind of wonky if somebody could just play with a sword, starting from no knowledge, and get up to a professional level just like that. But we'd want the amount of gain to still be at least somewhat noticeable even at higher levels. And this reduces the possibility of someone, for example, starting out as an elf and just meditating for a thousand years.

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Quote from: isitanos
Pushing this just a step further, setting up evidence so that someone else gets accused in your place (dropping the bloody dagger in his garbage, money under his bed, or whatever), then fearing as the legendary investigator tracks one by one the clues that lead to you, would just be an amazing experience.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the tracking/suspicion/paranoia stuff plays out.  Framing people might end up being the norm rather than the exception early on.  That would lead to alibis and so on, and we'd just have to take care not to get carried away with information tracking, but it might be able to wing it respectably (it knows the random peasant didn't kill the guy, after all, so whatever possibly-generated alibi he's got is fine).  The computer has the advantage of knowing you are the guilty party in advance, so getting that to work out fairly is just a matter of balancing things out, and then adding in the details that make it fun.
There would then need to be some manner of assuring that the framed party lacks an alibi. If he can't supply one (was all alone) or possibly wouldn't (say, was alone except for his friend's wife. And the situation was... untoward.) Seems to me that the easiest way to figure it out would be to check who's alone at the time of the crime, and hang onto that information until such time as somebody gets punished. But I don't know how big a deal that would be on the technical end.
Quote
Quote from: isitanos
Another way for a fortress to fall (very common in history) would be a traitor inside

Getting a dwarf to betray the fortress from the inside would require them to have contact -- which would make your broker or mayor/leader the best candidates among the important dwarves (any migrant or entity pop dwarf would do once you are established though).  I imagine that would be fairly traumatic for players though, if you've got no way to handle the situation.
You could just make the traitor a valid target for kill orders. If you do that, and provide that his friends would want to protect him, there's a possibility for a lot of fun there, working of a fairly simple base mechanic.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 01:26:27 pm by Cruxador »
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #238 on: July 06, 2010, 02:02:54 pm »

You could also make traitors criminals. This would be the realistic approach, with the traitor being executed on the spot or hauled off to jail.

Granted, this won't stop a first act, but it makes sense ingame to not jail someone for treason unless they've actually committed treason.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 02:06:31 pm by Urist Imiknorris »
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #239 on: July 06, 2010, 02:04:46 pm »

Urist Imiknorris, Forumite cancels Edit Post: Quote is not Modify. ::)
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!
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