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[Aptus]

They have a right to say that and boycott what they want, too.

I know, but my point is that he won't change just because people tell him to, just as we don't change because he tells us to. That boycott just hurt everyone.

It does? It's not like this guy is going to cure cancer if only we can get over his beliefs. He's making a game.

Bah damn 504 ate my reply to this discussion and I can't be arsed to retype all of it. But the basic jist is... yeah the above by Nenjin.

Saying a boycott based on the bigotry of the creator of a GAME is going to "hurt everyone" is just ridiculous. If you believe so much in the project McFry then you see it through, it is not the moral obligation of other people to bypass their principles just so you can get a computer game.

[Bauglir]

If anything, it's the creator's obligation to make an effort not to piss off his funding base.

[MagmaMcFry]

They have a right to say that and boycott what they want, too.

I know, but my point is that he won't change just because people tell him to, just as we don't change because he tells us to. That boycott just hurt everyone.

It does? It's not like this guy is going to cure cancer if only we can get over his beliefs. He's making a game.

Saying a boycott based on the bigotry of the creator of a GAME is going to "hurt everyone" is just ridiculous.

Lemme just clarify the intended meaning of my words: That boycott did not benefit anyone involved.

If you believe so much in the project McFry then you see it through, it is not the moral obligation of other people to bypass their principles just so you can get a computer game.

I have absolutely no interest in that game, I'm just disappointed in people's dogmatic principles ruining other people's enjoyment, and in people not thinking this stuff through. I dislike bigots just as much as you, but I don't go around wrecking stuff just to show my dislike for them.

[Aptus]

Lemme just clarify the intended meaning of my words: That boycott did not benefit anyone involved.

Boycotts are not meant to benifit, they are meant to make a point. As in, we will not buy your product if you are an asshat.

I have absolutely no interest in that game, I'm just disappointed in people's dogmatic principles ruining other people's enjoyment, and in people not thinking this stuff through. I dislike bigots just as much as you, but I don't go around wrecking stuff just to show my dislike for them.

How is not giving money to a crowdsourcing project ruining other peoples enjoyment? It makes no sense what so ever. And yeah, not giving monetary support to an corporation/person you do not agree with is apparently shortsighted... I... I just don't get you.

If someone has no problem with the project, then they can donate to their hearts content, but no, it is not shortsighted or mean to choose not to donate because of who is doing the project.

[Bauglir]

Just out of curiosity, how did the developer's views come to light in order to inspire the boycott? Are we talking something dug out of a personal facebook page that wasn't linked to the product, or was more like something mentioned on the website or in an interview?

[Nadaka]

I had a response that got ate...

Yes. this boycott helps those involved. It raises awareness of the issue. At can get people to think about the issue if they are on the fence, they may become more open-minded, or they may at least be less likely to openly denigrate and oppress. This improves the average life experience of the oppressed over time.

[Aptus]

I had a response that got ate...

There has been a lot of 504s today I noticed.

[penguinofhonor]

Just out of curiosity, how did the developer's views come to light in order to inspire the boycott? Are we talking something dug out of a personal facebook page that wasn't linked to the product, or was more like something mentioned on the website or in an interview?

There's a few things, including his own comments on his comic and an article he wrote for some conservative news site a few years ago.

[Bauglir]

Just out of curiosity, how did the developer's views come to light in order to inspire the boycott? Are we talking something dug out of a personal facebook page that wasn't linked to the product, or was more like something mentioned on the website or in an interview?

There's a few things, including his own comments on his comic and an article he wrote for some conservative news site a few years ago.

Eh, I'd let the article slide, assuming it was something he did in his free time or something, but the comic comments not so much. When you tie the opinion to your business, then your business is liable for it.

[penguinofhonor]

I'd be inclined to say the opposite, actually. I dislike combing through hundreds of comments to find something crappy a guy said (though Ratfist got pretty damn political around the point I stopped reading it so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of relevant comments), but when he publishes something professionally then he should expect to face any consequences it might have.

[ggamer]

I'd be inclined to say the opposite, actually. I dislike combing through hundreds of comments to find something crappy a guy said (though Ratfist got pretty damn political around the point I stopped reading it so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a ton of relevant comments), but when he publishes something professionally then he should expect to face any consequences it might have.

This actually links in very well to what we're talking about over here. It explains why Gabe made an apology the way he did, because he didn't want to lose business. Ratfist tried to link his views and his business and paid the price.

[penguinofhonor]

I also think there's a difference between "This guy just said something bad on Twitter, I'm mad at him" and "This guy is making a game, hey I found a comment on his site that was bad from like a year ago, I'm mad at him."

[kaijyuu]

The Penny Arcade dudes are pretty notorious for saying whatever the hell they want. I'm willing to believe Mr. Krahulik is genuinely apologizing.

As for watching what you say and business... You can step on racist's toes even if you're a huge family friendly company. They couldn't always do that. The world's pretty crappy but it's getting better.

[MagmaMcFry]

Lemme just clarify the intended meaning of my words: That boycott did not benefit anyone involved.

Boycotts are not meant to benifit, they are meant to make a point. As in, we will not buy your product if you are an asshat.

But now the developer is very likely more of an asshat than before. Am I missing something here?

I have absolutely no interest in that game, I'm just disappointed in people's dogmatic principles ruining other people's enjoyment, and in people not thinking this stuff through. I dislike bigots just as much as you, but I don't go around wrecking stuff just to show my dislike for them.

How is not giving money to a crowdsourcing project ruining other peoples enjoyment? It makes no sense what so ever. And yeah, not giving monetary support to an corporation/person you do not agree with is apparently shortsighted... I... I just don't get you.

Let's assume for a moment that the developer wasn't a bigot. People would not stop donating, the project would get funded, a game would happen, and everyone involved would be happy.
Now let's assume that the developer was a bigot, but nobody made a fuss about it. Same as above, everyone involved is happy.
Compare this to the situation we have now: No game, sad donators, and an angry bigot. Great job, Internet. Do you see my point now?

If someone has no problem with the project, then they can donate to their hearts content, but no, it is not shortsighted or mean to choose not to donate because of who is doing the project.

It is shortsighted if a donation, which could decide over the enjoyment of $900k worth of people, is withheld solely because of an entirely unrelated factor, which isn't even made better after withholding. And it's mean because the bigot is people too.

[nenjin]

But now the developer is very likely more of an asshat than before. Am I missing something here?

Uhm, since when has the onus been on anyone but the individual to not be an asshat? If that's his reaction to all this, to dial up the asshatery, it's even more proof that he's a tool bag who doesn't deserve the money of anyone except those that agree with them.

It is shortsighted if a donation, which could decide over the enjoyment of $900k worth of people, is withheld solely because of an entirely unrelated factor, which isn't even made better after withholding. And it's mean because the bigot is people too.

This sounds like a selfish justification. And I mean seriously, wtf, talking about this guy's politics MIGHT lead a potential backer to not donate?

I wonder how you'd react to a Kickstarter project where the creator had been a mass murderer, a rapist, leader of a hate organization, or what have you. Jolly ok as long as they're making something someone else will enjoy, and how dare you try to bring their politics into it?

Point in fact: no one gets to be on the Internet today without their past being a factor of the present. Period. If someone drug up the dumbshit I said a decade ago, guess what, I have to live with it, because it's what I said. There is no expiration date on fact.