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[MonkeyHead]

The graduate student teaching me seems to like it well enough.  I know what a half-dead mathematician looks like, and that he isn't.

By the way, did you actually read that article?  What it says is "maybe it's too hard for you or you'd rather have money."  I thought I was paying this guy to inspire me, not let me know that graduate school might just be a bit too difficult or stressful for little old me.  Or that I just don't care enough about math, aww.

Here's the question: what is the element that differentiates him from me?  He barely knows me.  There's something that he's picking up on that means I am not "a person who might want to go to graduate school" and he is.  Hmmm, what could it possibly be?

I have had freinds and students who have taken a year or two in industry. More often than not they never return to academic study, and take up a full time post in the company they were placed in. The irony is that this post is pretty much an identical one that they would be looking for once they have a masters or PhD, thus saving them a shitload of money and stress. Granted, this guy seems to be making his point like an asshole, but I ask the same question to any of my students doing the same thing, regardless of gender, race or any other factor.

I've always wondered about that...

I mean... You don't HAVE to tell them you have a masters, do you? o-o

They could probably find out by googling you, and if you have it listed publicly on Facebook... But are you legally obligated to say "I have a masters" when you apply to a job?

Misrepresenting your details in any manner will probably get you fired - pretty sure its a legal requirement in most nations/states to fully disclose information in this manner. Of course, this probably more applies to people who cliam to have more than they do rather than less.

[RedKing]

I've always wondered about that...

I mean... You don't HAVE to tell them you have a masters, do you? o-o

They could probably find out by googling you, and if you have it listed publicly on Facebook... But are you legally obligated to say "I have a masters" when you apply to a job?

No, but then you run the problem of "So....what were you doing during this big blank gap in your employment history?" 
I could truthfully say I was being a stay-at-home dad and raising my infant daughter for two and a half years, but that's not liable to impress them much either. I *have* met employers who admitted that they were impressed I was able to do that AND earn a Master's at the same time....right before they said "Thanks, we'll call you and let you know."


THEY NEVER CALL

[Vector]

Oh wait, there I go using logic again.

Oh, you're right!  I'm illogical and there must be no other information here than that which I've presented, and I've got nothing better to do with my time than to demonstrate beyond doubt that this guy was actually sexist.  Thank you for letting me know, I'm going to go give up my degree in problem-solving and logical thinking and be stupid over here now.  I'm so grateful that you'd deign to pass me a cheap online article, the likes of which I'm sure I never read before when I was thinking over whether I wanted to attend graduate school.

The points in that article can be classified into a couple of fundamental statements: there is a number of ways in which graduate school is hard, it is costly, and it is time-consuming.  Yes, and?


I'd think the whole "most students who decide to spend time in industry..." statement would not be the first thing to reach for for folks who didn't apply due to being physically unable to apply, rather than saying "hmm, I think I'd like to catch up on TV."  I understand your point, though, MonkeyHead.

[RedKing]

C'mon now...you can't fight in here, this is the rage thread, etc. etc.

FWIW, I think I was well-served by having been out in the real world and working a job for nearly 10 years before going back to grad school, even though it was a job that had nothing to do with my undergrad or graduate fields of study, simply because it made me take this shit more seriously. It was like "OH GOD WORK SUCKS I DON'T WANNA EVER GO BACK TO THAT STUDY STUDY STUDY STUDY".

....and then I went back to that kind of work. 

[Sirus]

You presented exactly one statement that could be taken any number of innocent ways and heavily implied that it was sexist. Hell yes that's illogical. More than that, it scans just like any number of overly-hysterical things that one can read on the Internet any day of the week. "Politician X wants to decrease military spending! OMG He's a terrorist-loving hippie commie traitor!"

And note that at NO POINT did I say that you shouldn't go to graduate school. Go ahead, and best of luck to ya. All I ever said was that perhaps this teacher thought that it wouldn't be the right choice for you.

Hard, costly, time-consuming, AND provides nothing anywhere near approaching a guarantee that you won't end up homeless or working behind the counter of a McDonald's for the rest of your life anyway. Look at RedKing for an example.

[Vector]

I found that the people in graduate school who were most successful and most into Getting Shit Done had spent a couple years in industry, so I set out to imitate those people who seemed to have their heads screwed on most tightly.

I'm getting a PhD because I want to be a professor.  If I did not want to be a professor, I probably would not get a PhD.

In all my time at Berkeley, this is the only guy who has treated me quite like this.  I've had other people tell me I was wrong in front of the class when I was right, I've had other people question my commitment and morality, I've had folks think that I must have taken the class before to be so much better than they were (not something they asked equally advanced male students, by the by), I've had folks ask me if I thought stuff wasn't women's work when I was doing the work in my head.

But this feels different.  Okay?  I've never been so obviously more talented than other students and so obviously lumped in with the folks who clearly have no idea whatsoever as to what they're doing.  It's never been so clear.  He doesn't have a leg to stand on, and if this were a solo event then I'd say "okay, fine, fuck you and your lack of faith but whatever."  But this is a pattern.

You presented exactly one statement that could be taken any number of innocent ways and heavily implied that it was sexist. Hell yes that's illogical. More than that, it scans just like any number of overly-hysterical things that one can read on the Internet any day of the week. "Politician X wants to decrease military spending! OMG He's a terrorist-loving hippie commie traitor!"

I suppose the part where I said there was a pattern and other offenses, complete with providing examples, means nothing to you.

You might also want to look up the roots of the word "hysterical," as your arguments are beginning to be more entertaining than well-founded.

[Korbac]

COOL IT PIRATES, rage is to be specifically directed at some inanimate object or concept and not a real person.

On the rage - subject, my fourth - fort looked likely to survive the zombie apocalypse. Then I breached the aquifier... sideways... goodbye promising fort. RAEG!

[olemars]

Plenty of jobs around here for anyone with a PhD or Master in a technological, engineering or natural sciences field. It's the people with a higher degree in, like, literature or social anthropology that get to struggle with explaining what they're useful for.

[Korbac]

I want to go outside to get some food, but I can't be arsed oh wait yes I can why was I posting here.

OH YEAH IT'S COLD OUTSIDE
There's no kind of atmosphere
I'm all alone
More or less...

[MonkeyHead]

...I shoulda been an astronomer.

Meh, didnt work so well for me. 

[lemon10]

STUPID ERASERS ON THE BACK OF PENCILS. WHY MUST YOU A) SUCK OR B) FALL OFF CONSTANTLY.
RAAAGGGEEE.

[Vector]

Logging on in the middle of class to say that that is NOT me. Now back to banging my head against Java.

Yeah... look, I want to make this clear.  I understand what you're saying, and I understand that jumping the gun on calling people sexist is horrible, but I sort of figured (hoped) that folks here already understood that I don't usually call people that without a lot of evidence.  And honestly, in this case, there's evidence enough and I'm also scared, because this guy has my career in his hands and doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in my skills or enthusiasm despite all of the data to the contrary.  Many people have randomly come out and said "Vector, you're going to grad school, right?  It was made for you," without my ever having told them that I was wavering; often long before I'd even thought about it, back in high school or so.  So what I'm trying to say is, the data all points to "Vector is exceptionally suited to grad school," and "Vector is exceptionally good at math," which is why this guy and his readings of my talents and his ability to write me a ho-hum recommendation make me nervous.

So y'know, I don't have a grudge against you but I really needed people to trust me and have faith in what I was saying just then, not ... whatever happened.  I wish I'd reacted differently but I don't think past-me could have done much better, with the state of vulnerability she was in.

[freeformschooler]

I thought you WERE in grad school. The idea that I could encounter the kind of maths and problems you've posted here in the past as an undergrad is terrifying.

[Sirus]

Listen Vector, I don't know you very well. Certainly not enough to tell if you're just jumping the gun on bigotry accusations or have solid evidence behind the accusations. Chalk it up to the fact that you took a bit of a vacation from the forums around the time I started becoming more active, so we missed most of each other's posting, plus the fact that you've been around two years longer than me. But in the meantime, and based on what other people here have said, I'm gonna take your word for it regarding your teacher.

All I can say is that  if this teacher IS a sexist bigot, then it is up to you to prove that he is utterly wrong and that you'll destroy him...mathematically speaking. Now I've gotta go home and get some work done.

[Toady One]

(deleted a bunch of posts -- please don't respond to sockpuppets if you can spot them)