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Something to incorporate milder temps near bodies of water?

[cephalo]

Something to incorporate milder temps near bodies of water?

I won't have time to do that this version, but I might be able to do it later. I also canceled the plans for altitude based temps to save some time. I'm not hugely in favor of Earth-like planetary weather systems in a fantasy game, although I know a lot of people like to add a bit more realism. As a workaround, there will be the option to paint temperatures as usual.

[cephalo]

I hereby present version 1.8! Finally we have a temperature map in PerfectWorldDF! Big thanks to ToadyOne for giving us the POLE:NONE option that made this possible. As this is a major update, keep an eye out for bugs that surely have been introduced. Make sure you set the Pole option to 'None', otherwise you will get a combination of PW's poles and DF's poles. Here are some examples of what can be done with the temperature map:

Here is the standard North and South pole, which is basically like the one that DF can do except that you can adjust the amounts of each temperature range.


As we are dealing with fantasy worlds, maybe there is no north or south! Maybe it's just cold and warm. You can decide.


Here is an example of a polar map. We are looking down at the North Pole in the center of the map. Can you take an adventurer to the North Pole? Probably.


Here you can see the cold northern lands giving way to warmer climes radiating south. You can almost see the curve of the Earth. Is that Earth? I don't know.


One thing that I discovered in my experiments is that you can't use the temperature map to make the world cold or hot enough to kill dwarves. As the numbers that you input approach the extremes, they have less effect on the actual temperature. The effective range of world painter values goes from about -30 to 140. Values outside of that range have almost no effect on temperature.

Here's the breakdown for sea level temperatures:
<-1 Freezing
0 thru 14 Cold
15 thru 49 Temperate
50 thru 74 Warm
75 thru 119 Hot
>120 Scorching

[Vattic]

Nice work as always. More temperature control was a long time coming.

[cephalo]

Thanks Vattic!

[PTTG??]

I've been waiting for this for a loooong time. Thank you Vattic, and toady one!

[Vattic]

It's cephalo's work not mine, he was thanking me for my compliments.

[Ddynamo]

Small thing but should the temperature gradient have a scroll bar, I can't see to create noise.

[cephalo]

Small thing but should the temperature gradient have a scroll bar, I can't see to create noise.

Yep. I guess I missed that. Thanks for reporting it.

[vjek]

You may already know this, cephalo, but the 'pole' settings determine whether or not you can go over/under temperature for things like cold damage and melting body fat, etc. 
Without them, as you've surmised, you can't exceed certain limits, but with the poles in play, you can romp in the danger zone.  Not sure if this is something you want to deal with, but it's a possible feature.

[cephalo]

You may already know this, cephalo, but the 'pole' settings determine whether or not you can go over/under temperature for things like cold damage and melting body fat, etc. 
Without them, as you've surmised, you can't exceed certain limits, but with the poles in play, you can romp in the danger zone.  Not sure if this is something you want to deal with, but it's a possible feature.

Are you sure about this? In my testing I was unable to do this even when combining DF poles with PW poles. If it was possible before, that may have changed in 40.09. I was able to get colder and hotter in degrees Urist, but not to physically dangerous levels.

[vjek]

... Are you sure about this? In my testing I was unable to do this even when combining DF poles with PW poles. If it was possible before, that may have changed in 40.09. I was able to get colder and hotter in degrees Urist, but not to physically dangerous levels.

Yep, try this worldgen:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Created in DF v0.40.12.

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:HOT]
[SEED:vFW0b2QW8K1dlr7rjGhI]
[HISTORY_SEED:FuchOij4MDbMHCTanpvO]
[NAME_SEED:3VIx5kTJ3cBSg9RZ1r9q]
[CREATURE_SEED:sb8c2oOS0usNavkQC9Bu]
[DIM:17:17]
[EMBARK_POINTS:5000]
[END_YEAR:100]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:100:-1]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
[ELEVATION:100:100:0:0]
[RAINFALL:0:0:0:0]
[TEMPERATURE:140:140:0:0]
[DRAINAGE:49:49:0:0]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:0:0]
[SAVAGERY:0:0:0:0]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[POLE:NORTH]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:1000]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:0]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:0]
[TITAN_NUMBER:0]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:0]
[DEMON_NUMBER:2]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
[SECRET_NUMBER:0]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:0]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:0]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:0]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:4]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:999]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0]
[SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:5]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:15]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:6]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:3]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:2]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:1]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:1]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:3]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:2]
[SITE_CAP:10]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:100:100:100:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:100:100:100:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:100:100:100:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[PS_VL:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]


Embark on the southern edge of the map.  Everything on the surface will be dying/dead within the first season, possibly within the first month.  The surface temp should be 10113U at the far map edge with a worldgen world temp min/max of 140 and a single pole.  120 is 10099 and 100 is 10086.  Melting point of fat is 10078.

Similar results for cold, iirc, at -90 or below.

[cephalo]

Hmm, so what I'm getting from this, is that the actual generation parameters from the temperature map (the ones I turn off in PW when the temperature map is selected on the parameter tab) are not subject to the same limitations that the pre-set map data is. If for example, you set all the temperature data in PWDF to 140 (you can do this by putting the last temp slider to zero) and use a north pole, I don't think you will get fat melting temps at the bottom of the map. I could be wrong though, I thought I tested this but I may have made a mistake.

I'm super busy at work this week, if someone could test that for me it would be great.

[vjek]

Hmm, so what I'm getting from this, is that the actual generation parameters from the temperature map (the ones I turn off in PW when the temperature map is selected on the parameter tab) are not subject to the same limitations that the pre-set map data is. ...

That's my understanding, yes.  I don't know if it's intentional or a bug, but that's exactly the behavior. 

We can't set the temps outside a limited/capped range (that specifically is NOT lethal), even if you use a pre-set-values map.  However, if you use poles and set the temperature high enough or low enough and let the old (pre 0.40.9) pole behavior produce the gradient, you can get lethal temperatures.

Short version; with poles = potentially lethal temperatures.  without poles = ~always "friendly" temperatures.

Another interesting behavior I noticed when testing this... if your temperature is high enough or low enough, on the embark finder, you'll get the "NO TRADE" warning come up.  In the past, that would prevent trade caravans from visiting.  Currently (at least, in 0.40.12) this is no longer true, and Dwarven Caravans visit (and suffer cold damage, at least) regardless of this setting.
This has the consequence of causing potentially tremendous damage to containers, resulting in carried goods being.. "liberated" or destroyed from the caravan while they're on the surface.

Also, if the temperature is high enough or low enough, no animals of any kind will visit the embark surface.  This, too, has some interesting possibilities for certain challenge forts.  Even though animals will not visit normally, though, currently this doesn't stop the dwarven trade caravan.

[Silpion81]

Is there a required setting to enable the general/map generation/map rejection parameters? Everything except the four seeds is grayed out / disabled. I'm using the version supplied with the Dwarf Fortress 40.13 Starter Pack r4.