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[Sparrowhawk]

How does one manage these? From the wiki:

"If you are playing in a freezing or very cold landscape, basically, where it snows in winter and instantly freezes water, you can dig out a 3x3 hole in the ground using channels, and make it deeper and deeper until you reach the aquifer level. Once you reach the damp rock, tunnel into it with an up/down staircase - the incoming water will freeze after a few moments. The central square of the 3x3 hole should be tunnelable ice, so you can get to the rock beneath. If there are two aquifer levels, for example, you can just make a larger initial hole, and make a smaller one for the level after."

This doesn't seem to work for me. The perpetrator seems to be that when you channel into the aquifer layer, the water freezes as one would expect, but ice doesn't make slopes. Thus, your dwarves can't actually tunnel into it with staircases because they cannot reach it. Trying to circumvent this by trapping one's miners within the channel-hole results in them expiring in a decidedly Han Solo-esque fashion. You can't dig from the above layer (the non-aquifer layer) with a staircase, because then the up-down staircase you've made (with the purely 'down' staircase on the z-level above) fills with non-frozen water, because it counts as being 'inside'.

There's something I'm not understanding here and it's resulting in endless Fun. It must be something simple missing in my understanding of the situation because I doubt something would remain on the wiki for as long as that method has if it was incorrect. Can someone please help? Be as precise as you can, I'm okay at this game but I've never had this much Fun before. Many thanks in advance

[Flaede]

you turn it all to ice. then dig down into the ICE.

Basically, create an X by Y area of ice one tile wider than the area you need open and aquifer free. Leave the outer walls of (now) ice in place and use the center for your pit operations.  In the 3x3 example given, you channel out ALL of the 3x3 area, then dig the down stairs in only the middle portion.

[Rastaan]

But if your map has a thaw season you'll need to start with a 4x4 square, allow the water to flow in and freeze to leave a safe 3x3 square in the centre of the 4x4. Then dig out the safe part and construct walls and stairs.

[Sparrowhawk]

Okay, I've done precisely that. I channelled down through the non-aquifer layers. I reach the layer above the aquifer. Once that layer has been dealt with, I designate a 3x3 area in the aquifer layer to be channelled. Assuming no idiot miner entombs himself, the 3x3 area is then channelled out and ice forms in the 3x3 area. So at this point, there should be a single tile in the middle that does not register as damp, yes? And this is what I find. I designate a staircase in this tile. . . and nothing happens. The miner acts as though he has no jobs to do. Staircases, ramps, nothing. He will not, under any circumstances, perform that task.

Help?

[Sphalerite]

You can't dig a staircase in a surface unless you first build a downward staircase on the tile above.

[Dave Mongoose]

Okay, I've done precisely that. I channelled down through the non-aquifer layers. I reach the layer above the aquifer. Once that layer has been dealt with, I designate a 3x3 area in the aquifer layer to be channelled. Assuming no idiot miner entombs himself, the 3x3 area is then channelled out and ice forms in the 3x3 area. So at this point, there should be a single tile in the middle that does not register as damp, yes? And this is what I find. I designate a staircase in this tile. . . and nothing happens. The miner acts as though he has no jobs to do. Staircases, ramps, nothing. He will not, under any circumstances, perform that task.

Help?

You are designating a downward staircase, yes? and the block of ice you've designated is flashing with the > symbol?

do you have a staircase for getting up and down your channelled out mineshaft?

[Hyndis]

Basically just dig out a large shaft from the surface to the aquifer level so you expose that water to air. It turns to ice. You can now dig through the ice to the layers below.

[Sparrowhawk]

do you have a staircase for getting up and down your channelled out mineshaft?

Yes, I do have a staircase for that. The problem is that when you reach the aquifer level the up/down staircase is unusable, because it fills with water, and that water does not freeze because a staircase counts as being 'inside'. The staircase has 7/7 water in it on the aquifer level, so he can't walk on the ice itself to start the aquifer-penetrating staircase.

[Rotten]

Step 1: Dig up/down staircase stack until you hit the aquifer
Step 2: Dig 5 or so tile tunnels from each level of the staircase
Step 3: Dig out a 3X3 (4X4 if 2-layer) room at the end of each tunnel
Step 4: Channel the floor from each room (will leave no ramps since previously dug out) to get a 3X3 shaft down to the aquifer, which will freeze
Step 5: Dig staircase in the middle of the 3X3 square

Code: [Select]

▓▓▓▓▓X▓▓▓▓▓▓...▓
▓▓▓▓▓X______...▓
▓▓▓▓▓X______...▓
▓▓▓▓▓X______...▓
▓▓▓▓▓~▓▓▓▓▓▓#X#▓

▓ is natural wall
_ is tunnel
X is up/down staircase
~ is aquifer
# is frozen aquifer
. is open space


[Sparrowhawk]

I'll attempt that when I get home today. Much appreciated

[Sparrowhawk]

Nup. Doesn't work. The miners will not walk across the ice to dig the stairway in the aquifer level. They won't cancel the job, they just act like there is no job to do in the first place. Everything before step 5 works fine.

Has anyone actually *done* this before?

[Dave Mongoose]

Nup. Doesn't work. The miners will not walk across the ice to dig the stairway in the aquifer level. They won't cancel the job, they just act like there is no job to do in the first place. Everything before step 5 works fine.

Has anyone actually *done* this before?

On version 40d, definitely. Maybe not in the new one.

Will they channel it out if you tell them to?

[Grumman]

Nup. Doesn't work. The miners will not walk across the ice to dig the stairway in the aquifer level. They won't cancel the job, they just act like there is no job to do in the first place. Everything before step 5 works fine.

Has anyone actually *done* this before?

I encountered a similar problem when I tried this on a test map. I think the problem was that the freezing was generating ice walls, but not ice floors above those walls. Try building a floor path out to where you want to dig.

[Some Internet Guy]

In the latest version when you channel out a space that freezes over it considers the lower level of the channel a wall but the upper level "open space" - i.e. not navigable. Build a floor or a grate across that space and you can reach it fine- apparently water freezes under floors, now, which I think is new too. I just tested it and it doesn't do this when you dig the spaces out from the side, the refreezing water will generate a wall and a floor above it in that case.

Also, if you get problems check your stairs to make sure they're as they should be. I've noticed some wierd behaviors with the 'up' part of up/down stairs getting destroyed due to ice melting, constructions, etc.

You seem sorta dedicated to not really exploring or finding solutions for yourself so I should also save time and point out that you need to expand the shaft to 5x5 or greater if you've got more than two layers of aquifer, otherwise it becomes basically impossible to expose the ice. The wider you dig the shaft the better, really, since in this version if dwarves don't have a solid space to stand on they will happily stand atop the square they're channeling out, dunking them in the drink (/lava/rapidly freezing icewater).

[FunkyWaltDogg]

I suspect the problem arises due to the ramps left in the aquifer; anytime a ramp is created by mining, the floor on the next level up is removed, and the code for that might be interfering with the creation of an ice floor on top of an ice wall sharing a tile with an upward ramp.

A couple things to try:

• If you [k] over a channeled frozen aquifer tile, does it show only as an ice wall or as both an ice wall and an upward ramp?
• If you cause the ice wall to melt, is there still a ramp in the tile?