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[Zombie]

We could have brass knuckles and the like for "unarmed" d0rfs.

Punch that breaks the jaws of 10,000 carp!

[Jasta]

Not really seeing this in 31.06 myself.

Had my first titan show up, was a bit worried at how tough it would be so I shuffled my military around a bit and assembled a crack squad of experts and up. I tried to get them to form up and attack at once but my master hammerdwarf ran on ahead of the others.

Fortunately I needn't have worried. One shot with a steel warhammer tore its shoulder off, no more Mr. Titan. Hammerdwarf barely broke a sweat.

[Spectre]

That hammers are effective against statues is as it should be. I am not certain, how the bugfixes in .06 solve any of the issues in this thread, so it could be, that the millitary finaly starts to work as it should be. I think there is still much testing required.

[scira]

At some people saying its realistic that an armed opponent be able to easily take out wrestlers or that wrestling should not be strong at all, you don't seem to take into account numbers and dwarves lack of self preservation. Of course this would apply to armed dwarves as well, but what I'm saying is that if you have half a dozen or more guys charging at you putting your harm above their safety, you are most likely going to get your weapon arm grabbed by one while another either tries to further disable you or begins to pound on you while you are being held.
On the other hand this doesn't take into account each of those 6+ guys trying to grab you fingers of toes before they would try to stop you from hacking them apart.
What I mean is that while there are lots of things that could be fixed about it, slapping a "Its meant to suck" on wrestling is a big cop-out.

[Hyndis]

If the fight is 10v1 of wrestlers vs a swordswarf then the wrestlers will probably win. With half of the wrestlers dead. Thats not a very good kill ratio.

[scira]

But its better than all 10 of them being dead.

[Grey570]

Ok is my current save glitched out or what! I'm playing in around year 100 in a world where a dwarf civ (the one I'm apart of) conquered a goblin civ without killing its demonlord so we have a "co-king" who is a moose-demon. I live beside an allied goblin fortress the nearest hostile goblins are quite far away and demon ruled was well they live right beside elves which is actually horrible because nearly every ambush is lead by an elite elf archer. Whats insane is 2 years into the game at about 40 population I have had an insane problem show up. First ambush consisted of an elf with no ear called the suicidal eviscerator a elf with a crossbow and 6 goblin archers with him came 2 squads of spears 2 with swords and then another with all archers lead by another elf each squad had about 5-8 goblins and with full copper armor and iron or copper weapons and most of them had a "leader" with iron armor in addition I raised my bridges knowing I couldn't beat that even if everyone in my fort was a warrior a full season went by and by the end there were 80 goblins and it still was "just" an ambush then some dwarven traders showed up and every last one of them was killed and the ambushers all left so I lowered my bridges and about 3 seconds later the suicidal eviscerator was suddenly back him and his squad somehow managed to make it to my depot and his squad ALONE killed every last dwarf in my fort even after I drafted everyone they ran out of arrows and bolts fast but this elf just went about smacking everyone with his crossbow and killed everyone. I also had about 30 wardogs which I assume are useless in 2010 version now because in another save about 20 of them failed to kill a single goblin completely unarmored with nothing but a spear.

[Megaman]

... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.

[Spectre]

... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If you get in a barfight with the same number of ordinary humans (or -haha- elves) and ordinary dwarves, I am sure everyone in this forum would expect the dwarves to wipe ass.

[Josephus]

... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.

They're employing pankration, which means that the kicks they do use aren't going to be the snap head kicks used in something like Tae Kwan Do. They're supposed to be elbowing the throat (crushed larynx), putting them in headlocks, and kicking them in the 'nads. Pankration is nasty.

[Spectre]

They're employing pankration, which means that the kicks they do use aren't going to be the snap head kicks used in something like Tae Kwan Do. They're supposed to be elbowing the throat (crushed larynx), putting them in headlocks, and kicking them in the 'nads. Pankration is nasty.

Nasty like a barfight. A barfight with drunken, angry dwarven soldiers. Remember how they train? You get hit with a weapon untill you learn how to not get hit.
You guys in america don't get much books with the dirty fantasy do you? That description sounds acurate to me.
Especially the "crushed larynx" part.

[Nerserus]

To be honest, a Legendary Wrestler could probably kick the utter crap out of a martial arts user. I thought that was the whole idea of being a legend at wrestling? I can understand even a novice crossbowman could take cheap shots from afar and kill 10 legendary wrestler dwarves, but the fact a novice swordsman could do it, even in armor, is ridiculous.

Wake up people. This isn't some weak ass kid trying to punch a mountain of muscle in a skin of steel, it's angry, manly gods of fighting gang-raping frail inexperienced men in low quality gear. The Dwarves should win easily.

And I know alot of people dislike how overpowered wrestling is, but I think nerfing it to the point of sheer worthlessness actually makes the game less realistic, my teacher's friend died from a bunch of kids beating him up. Unarmed fighting seems under-rated in your eyes, have any of you ever actually been punched? I tell you it hurts like hell and in the right spots it can do alot of damage if the guy is pretty damn strong.

[Josephus]

Good choice for a necro, this topic is worth discussing.

Also, crushed larnyx. Greek warriors and Medieval Knights used this sort of grappling all the time, and in close combat it was essential for their victories.

[Spectre]

And I know alot of people dislike how overpowered wrestling is, but I think nerfing it to the point of sheer worthlessness actually makes the game less realistic, my teacher's friend died from a bunch of kids beating him up. Unarmed fighting seems under-rated in your eyes, have any of you ever actually been punched? I tell you it hurts like hell and in the right spots it can do alot of damage if the guy is pretty damn strong.

When I was like 10 and one hell of a cranky (wonder if that's the right word) kid, I once punshed another kid in the chest (what is the name of that nerve node again?) full force. Mind you full force for a weakish 10 year old. It flattend him instandly. I was probably more shocked then everyone else.

[Shadowclaimer]

Haha I had this same problem with my last fortress that fell, strangely enough my wrestlers and axedwarves were pathetically weak (even when armed with iron armor and iron weapons), yet my captain of the guard using an Iron Spear metaphorically and literally raped everything, and he wasn't even wearing armor!

He could take on like 5-6 goblins with no issues, yet my Axedwarves in squads of 3 would get slaughtered, he wasn't that skilled with the spear, and wasn't superhumanly strong either.