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[Hyndis]

If you have no weapons and you're fighting against a guy with a large sharp object, the odds are not in your favor.

Unarmed wrestling vs weapons is quite accurate as currently stands.

I think people are just spoiled by the jedi kung fu masters of 40D.

[Kalrirr]

Spears seem to work fine for me aswell. My "adequate" speardwarves constantly stab gobbos in the brains.

[zarmazarma]

Meh... We could say the new wrestling is more realistic, but then again, that's talking for humans... We are considering dwarves that can lift the corpse of a dragon and stroll happily off with it, I think that getting in the grip of one of those little buggers would be a most unpleasant experience...

Besides the new wrestling leading to increasingly FUN experiences, I think perhaps some of it's old luster should be returned.

Btw, recently in adventure mode it seems like the only good weapons are the ones that can sever body parts. All the others take like 20+ hits to kill something (unless you get lucky), and spears and such are often found shattering bones instead of piercing organs.

[Used]

i got similar problems... An orge (genesis modded version) attacked my fisher and followed him to my fort. He passed thru two of my stonefall traps with only minor damage to his head an spine.  after that he got attacked from a war dog i chained near the entrance and the orge struck her down with a single strike (throw her against the next wall). after that my first military dwarf arrived, he was an westler (seem that he forgot his sword  ) an also got struck down within a few seconds. than another stray dog attacked him. after that things went crazy. the orge had only a few wounded bodyparts (yellow) but it seemed that he wasnt able to hit that dog! few moments later my highmaster swordsdwarf and my proficent axedwarf arrived. they fought against the orge but made nearly no damage... the fought for neary a season and could not do more harm than wound any of the orges bodyparts (everything yellow). the dog was still "tanking" ^^. after an endless fight in my fort (the rest of my dwars could not do anything because the wanted to eat and drink but my dwarfs were fighting the orge near the food stockpiles *sight*) one of my 3 heroes managed to cut the orge simply into two pieces. he/she cut off the upper body (or the lower (whatever you prefer ^^)

i think thats not what fighting should be. but a "fun" stoy indeed ^^

PS: this was not the first time something like that happend to me (a cavecroco and a wolf (!) did the same. i noticed that every of that creatures has lost one of their backtooth during th fight. not sure but i think it always was the right one. does that matter...?

PPS: i'm native german please excuse eventually bad language 

greetings and happy dwarfing

[Nerserus]

If you have no weapons and you're fighting against a guy with a large sharp object, the odds are not in your favor.

Unarmed wrestling vs weapons is quite accurate as currently stands.

I think people are just spoiled by the jedi kung fu masters of 40D.

Depends on how skilled the person with the knife is and how skilled the person fighting him unarmed is.

If said unarmed person is a Legendary, martial artist. If anything. That other guy's severely fu**ed.

And that's exactly how it should be, Legendary should simply be harder to obtain. It's more ridiculous having Legendary Wrestlers running left and right about the Fortress and losing to one Dabbling Goblin Swordsman than being unstoppable ( Which, in a way would be kinda accurate what with being, Legendary, which is an over-used tag not taken very seriously in my opinion. )

[Robsoie]

Can't agree more, high skill levels should be powerfull, and even at the cost of being difficult to obtain.

Certainly in previous versions even low skilled wrestlers were really strong, but now seeing a Legendary wrestler dwarf being unable to, while facing a dabbling armed opponent, just disarm him, bend the enemy body in 4 parts, eat him, throw his opponent wife into a bottomless pit, and teach his children about the value of the martial trance all of this in the same move feels really underwhelming when you see that happening.

[kuro_suna]

I think the problem is that grappling needs to be combined with some sort subdue and arrest or finishing move, right now when two unarmed dorfs fight it seems like they just fondle each other until someone starves to death.

[Firehound]

Don't quite understand what you guys are saying. My wrestlers tend to grate their opponents faces into the walls, break every arm and leg and then start shit-kicking them since their opponents guts, lower spine, and neck have all been broken by a sudden collision to the floor. Wrestling can be dangerous in this version. At least more then hammers are.

[Jazhuis]

I think the problem is that grappling needs to be combined with some sort subdue and arrest or finishing move, right now when two unarmed dorfs fight it seems like they just fondle each other until someone starves to death.

Urist McHelmsley grapples the carp.
Urist McHelmsley hits the Pedigree!
Carp falls unconscious.

[Zangi]

Size has a lot to do with wrestling effectiveness.

1) Small creature has harder time of breaking hold of grip.
2) Large creature has easier time locking on to limbs.
3) Large creature has easier time breaking limbs.
4) Large creature does more damage via throwing.  Size difference greatly increases damage, up to the point of exploding bodies.
5) Large creature takes less strangle turns to make small creature pass out.

And the title of this thread should be: "Wrestling is just too weak."

[kuro_suna]

I have a new theory, in the arena wrestlers can kill each other but dorfs spawned in the area are naked. Is it possible that the problem is wrestlers are grabbing clothing and get stuck trying to strangle someones hat until they die?

[lordogoo]

I actually had it where a mother caring a baby was killed by a goblin and the baby went berserk.

That baby single handedly killed all six goblins but it didn't stop there.

I sent my military, witch consisted of 4 recruits and 3 spear dwarves(not very well trained but hey its a berserk baby) after the baby not expecting it to massacre my entire military then proceed to kill 20 other dwarves before I could trap it. But the damage was done and the tantrum spiral began. 100 dwarf fortress lost to a baby.

Maybe berserk dwarves are a bit too strong.

[kuro_suna]

Against berserk dorfs you just need to line your halls with cage traps and build a zoo/insane asylum.

[Firehound]

That baby is godlike.

[Libelnon]

personally, although yes, the military is a bit iffy, with weapons other than swords, axes and spears not doing much, I think there's a simple solution for now...
TRAPS.
come on people. You can defend an entire fort against a gobbo siege if you can build your drowning traps.
I had a magma-mist trap in one of my 40d games. It fried almost 18 gobbo sieges entirely by itself. Oh, and an elven caravan before I managed to automate it properly.
The problem was reloading it...